Shadowfax

Fatty Lumpkin · 01-27-2003, 12:51 PM

this may have been discussed already. if so, apologies...

but, here's my issue. overall, i thought TTT was great. one thing that really disappointed me, however, was shadowfax. maybe it's just me, but from the way the horse was shown in the film, i really didn't get the impression that it was the king of horses. it wasn't particularly beautiful or fast, it was just... a horse. i always loved reading about shadowfax when i was a kid, and was more than a little let down by the film. i'm not sure how PJ could have made it better, but still...

what did anyone else think? did i just not "get it?"

squinteyedsoutherner · 01-27-2003, 01:36 PM

I thought the horse itself looked magnificent. It was the Walt Disney portrayal that ruined the scene for me. Slow-motion takes away from the majesty and power of a horse, it does not enhance it. The rearing up on the hill before the charge was, in my opinion, the worst moment of the film. A cheesy cinematic cliche.

Fatty Lumpkin · 01-27-2003, 01:39 PM

the slow-mo definitely did not work. i had forgotten about that until your post. perhaps that's why i am so displeased...

***Fat middle*** · 01-27-2003, 01:59 PM

it seems that PJ tends to overuse slow motion all over the trilogy, and almost every time he uses it, the result is horrible: Frodo's little accident at the Prancing Pony, the meeting of the hobbits at Rivendell, Sam's drowning in the Anduin... Shadowfax...

however i admitt that sometimes the result is touching as in the company flying after Gandalf's fall in Moria.

Beleg Strongbow · 01-27-2003, 02:03 PM

Actually, I think that the only bad use of slow mo was the horse rearing up. And that gave me goosebumps the second time I saw it, so...
I just think Gandalf would've fallen off.

FrodoFriend · 01-27-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
I just think Gandalf would've fallen off.

LOL.... even Wizards have their bad days....

I didn't have a problem with the slomo, except for the part where Frodo gets skewered by the troll in FotR - that was just over done. Shadowfax was alright, though I pictured him as larger and with more mane and well, smarter and wilder looking. But then, where are you going to find a horse like that on Earth?

LuthienTinuviel · 01-27-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
But then, where are you going to find a horse like that on Earth?

my thoughts exactly

Shadowfax · 01-27-2003, 04:28 PM

I just didn't like the cliché slow motion junk.

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-27-2003, 06:58 PM

Shadowfax was originally grey, I think but I'm not complaining.

*Loves white horses

*

Lady of Rohan · 01-27-2003, 07:19 PM

I thought the Shadowfax in the movie was beautiful (but then again I think that all horses are beautiful!). But I thought that they would tell more about him and make it more important that he was the King of Horses. And I thought that they would show more about how much Gandalf loved Shadowfax, because in the book were they not always talking about Gandalf and Shadowfax's special bond?

Evenstar1400 · 01-27-2003, 09:36 PM

anyone seen george of the jungle? think of the scene where he was chasing the horses with all the ladies giggling about how sexy he looked (yadayadayada.... he isnt that hot) yeah well anyway...... now that i think about it, one of those horses looked like shadowfax. he doesnt seem as magestic as he was portrayed in the book. and wasnt he supposed to be kinda silverish???

Dúnedain · 01-27-2003, 09:47 PM

I liked Shadowfax. I think that if we saw him running off and leaving everyone in the dust it would just look weird, especially for the people who know nothing about Shadowfax, they'd just be like "wtf!"

Firekitten2006 · 01-27-2003, 10:16 PM

Did anyone else notice they used several different horses for shadowfax? I think that was my main problem. Really distracting for a horse freak like myself. I was just excited to see him. I was personally dissapointed with the Stables. I thought that the Rohirrim would have more magnificent stables for horses, since they really love them. I mean they had a wonderful grave for Snowmane! lol

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-27-2003, 10:37 PM

If they took two minutes to explain a bit about Shadowfax (probably less than that), it wouldn't seem wierd.

Huan · 01-28-2003, 01:29 AM

Yeah, in fact, in the book the lines explaining Shadowfax's majestic nature aren't just pure exposition; they fit into the action of the story. For example, Grima's condemnation of Gandalf's "daring" to "presume" to "claim" Shadowfax. A bit of that could get across to an audience who this horse is. In the movie, I hate to say, with only that one line it sounds kind of cheesy: "The lord of all horses." You can't say that to a movie audience without backing it up (same with the "walking trees", whose entire profundity is neglected in the movie: just add two lines and some of it would be there!). The philologist in me is also bothered that the line about Shadowfax being "one of the mearas, unless some spell etc." goes to Legolas. I don't think he would use the word mearas to describe him, as that is an Old English (Rohirrim in Tolkien) word (origin of our modern "mare"), not an Elvish one. I'm sure the elves have their own word to distinguish the mearas. And finally, Gandalf and Shadowfax rearing up in the sunlight at the movie's climax is indeed VERY cliched.

Dunadan · 01-28-2003, 04:59 AM

Yes, I thought that was a bit Bakshi-esque. Also agree with the comment about Ents; in general, he tried to cram in too much detail and didn't spend long enough developing the characters and plot lines which really matter.

Given that Shadowfax really ought to have been in the first film, there was always going to be an issue around how they introduced him. I reckon we'll see a bit more in ROTK, especially when G.

saves Faramir and confronts the Witch-king at Minas Tirith

cheers

d.

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-28-2003, 10:31 AM

Hmm? I didn't remember him in the first book; where was he there?

Beleg Strongbow · 01-28-2003, 02:09 PM

yeah.

squinteyedsoutherner · 01-28-2003, 02:49 PM

Shadowfax is not in the first book.

***azalea*** · 01-28-2003, 04:18 PM

Yeah, I thought that instead of doing slo-mo, it would have made more sense to SPEED UP the film for Shadowfax's entrance -- no way would it take him that long to get from where he was to Gandalf!

And it was a beautiful horse, but I think people who hadn't read the book didn't really understand what the deal was, I mean why was all this time (relatively) spent introing this horse (they thought), of course not understanding the significance. But it wasn't that bad to me.

01-27-2003, 12:51 PM	#1
Fatty Lumpkin Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryville, MO Posts: 10	Shadowfax this may have been discussed already. if so, apologies... but, here's my issue. overall, i thought TTT was great. one thing that really disappointed me, however, was shadowfax. maybe it's just me, but from the way the horse was shown in the film, i really didn't get the impression that it was the king of horses. it wasn't particularly beautiful or fast, it was just... a horse. i always loved reading about shadowfax when i was a kid, and was more than a little let down by the film. i'm not sure how PJ could have made it better, but still... what did anyone else think? did i just not "get it?"

01-27-2003, 01:36 PM	#2
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	I thought the horse itself looked magnificent. It was the Walt Disney portrayal that ruined the scene for me. Slow-motion takes away from the majesty and power of a horse, it does not enhance it. The rearing up on the hill before the charge was, in my opinion, the worst moment of the film. A cheesy cinematic cliche. Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 01-27-2003 at 02:10 PM.

01-27-2003, 01:59 PM	#4
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	it seems that PJ tends to overuse slow motion all over the trilogy, and almost every time he uses it, the result is horrible: Frodo's little accident at the Prancing Pony, the meeting of the hobbits at Rivendell, Sam's drowning in the Anduin... Shadowfax... however i admitt that sometimes the result is touching as in the company flying after Gandalf's fall in Moria. __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

01-27-2003, 02:03 PM	#5
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	Actually, I think that the only bad use of slow mo was the horse rearing up. And that gave me goosebumps the second time I saw it, so... I just think Gandalf would've fallen off. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

01-27-2003, 04:28 PM	#8
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	I just didn't like the cliché slow motion junk. __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

01-27-2003, 01:39 PM	#3
Fatty Lumpkin Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryville, MO Posts: 10	the slow-mo definitely did not work. i had forgotten about that until your post. perhaps that's why i am so displeased...

01-27-2003, 06:58 PM	#9
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Shadowfax was originally grey, I think but I'm not complaining. Loves white horses __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

01-27-2003, 07:19 PM	#10
Lady of Rohan Doughy Elf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,006	I thought the Shadowfax in the movie was beautiful (but then again I think that all horses are beautiful!). But I thought that they would tell more about him and make it more important that he was the King of Horses. And I thought that they would show more about how much Gandalf loved Shadowfax, because in the book were they not always talking about Gandalf and Shadowfax's special bond?

01-27-2003, 09:36 PM	#11
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	anyone seen george of the jungle? think of the scene where he was chasing the horses with all the ladies giggling about how sexy he looked (yadayadayada.... he isnt that hot) yeah well anyway...... now that i think about it, one of those horses looked like shadowfax. he doesnt seem as magestic as he was portrayed in the book. and wasnt he supposed to be kinda silverish??? __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

01-27-2003, 09:47 PM	#12
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	I liked Shadowfax. I think that if we saw him running off and leaving everyone in the dust it would just look weird, especially for the people who know nothing about Shadowfax, they'd just be like "wtf!" __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

01-27-2003, 10:16 PM	#13
Firekitten2006 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the US of A! But I wish i was in austraila, never been, just think it would be a fun place to live :) Posts: 372	Did anyone else notice they used several different horses for shadowfax? I think that was my main problem. Really distracting for a horse freak like myself. I was just excited to see him. I was personally dissapointed with the Stables. I thought that the Rohirrim would have more magnificent stables for horses, since they really love them. I mean they had a wonderful grave for Snowmane! lol __________________ I'm Baaaack!!

01-27-2003, 10:37 PM	#14
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	If they took two minutes to explain a bit about Shadowfax (probably less than that), it wouldn't seem wierd. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

01-28-2003, 01:29 AM	#15
Huan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 274	Yeah, in fact, in the book the lines explaining Shadowfax's majestic nature aren't just pure exposition; they fit into the action of the story. For example, Grima's condemnation of Gandalf's "daring" to "presume" to "claim" Shadowfax. A bit of that could get across to an audience who this horse is. In the movie, I hate to say, with only that one line it sounds kind of cheesy: "The lord of all horses." You can't say that to a movie audience without backing it up (same with the "walking trees", whose entire profundity is neglected in the movie: just add two lines and some of it would be there!). The philologist in me is also bothered that the line about Shadowfax being "one of the mearas, unless some spell etc." goes to Legolas. I don't think he would use the word mearas to describe him, as that is an Old English (Rohirrim in Tolkien) word (origin of our modern "mare"), not an Elvish one. I'm sure the elves have their own word to distinguish the mearas. And finally, Gandalf and Shadowfax rearing up in the sunlight at the movie's climax is indeed VERY cliched.

01-28-2003, 10:31 AM	#17
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hmm? I didn't remember him in the first book; where was he there? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

01-28-2003, 02:09 PM	#18
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	yeah. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

01-28-2003, 02:49 PM	#19
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	Shadowfax is not in the first book.

01-28-2003, 04:18 PM	#20
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Yeah, I thought that instead of doing slo-mo, it would have made more sense to SPEED UP the film for Shadowfax's entrance -- no way would it take him that long to get from where he was to Gandalf! And it was a beautiful horse, but I think people who hadn't read the book didn't really understand what the deal was, I mean why was all this time (relatively) spent introing this horse (they thought), of course not understanding the significance. But it wasn't that bad to me.

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