Legolas and Gimli did not get a big enough part in the three books do you agree?

Legolas_BowKing · 01-27-2002, 01:59 AM

I dont think that Legolas and Gimli got enough time in the book as perhaps they deserved.
We did not here nearly enough about there growing friendship and there idears on the world. All the stuff that was learnt about them was just a Elf, Dwarf stero type.
So do you think that the true personality of these to wonderful beings was not put across all that well in the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy?

Legolas · 01-27-2002, 02:41 AM

Well, in fact you're right, fellow from Mirkwood. But, I liked Legolas most just because he's so secretive and so little there is written about him.
BTW, Legolas seems to be very popular. I think there are about 4 Legolases on the boards.

Mirkgirl · 01-27-2002, 03:37 AM

Actualy Legolas has always recieved enough attention from the readers.

But poor Gimli!

Radagast · 01-27-2002, 06:31 AM

I think dwarves should have gotten a larger part generally.

sbpollo1 · 01-27-2002, 09:13 AM

It is strange to me that as I read the books when I was younger, Legolas and Gimli seemed to have a much larger role than when I read again and again. Odd how your mind's vision changes with time.

markedel · 01-27-2002, 10:16 AM

Dwarves are always shafted. Tolkien doesn't give them enough space. And he never tells us what happens to them either.

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-27-2002, 11:21 AM

And look at the corpus for the dwarven language as compared to the corpus of Quenya. We know about 13 impractical words in Khuzdul and 1000 or more (including suffixes and plurals and such) in Quenya.

I really wish the dwarves would have more history and background.

Laurelyn · 01-27-2002, 12:05 PM

Well, the lack of dwarvish language in the books is due to the fact that dwarves taught their language to just about nobody!

mrs legolas · 01-27-2002, 02:44 PM

I think that Legolas and Gimli had enough parts in the books...though I am only starting the 2nd...so I'll let you know what I think when I'm done...but so far they do have more parts than they do in the movie...poor Legolas hardly got any lines in the movie....

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-27-2002, 03:20 PM

Exactly, I wish he would have given them there own language not just a "secret" language that they only used in places not described by the book.

Ñólendil · 01-27-2002, 03:44 PM

I never felt Gimli and Legolas got snubbed. I think we got enough of them alright and I certainly don't think we only got 'stereotypes'. There's two kind of Gimli/Legolas stereotypes I know of: the first is the one they had for eachother as characters, which was put away with altogether in Lothlórien. The second is the Dwarf/Elf stereotype other people outside the story give them, including Peter Jackson.

Foul_Dwimmerlaik · 01-27-2002, 05:36 PM

Remember that there was no Dwarf/Elf stereotype until The Lord of the Rings.

Wayfarer · 01-27-2002, 05:44 PM

Begone, Foul dwimmerlaik, ere I smite you!

Or something...

Actually, tolkien did use a large amount of background information from other sources. Thus his dwarves are smiths, and his elves are fair and powerful. His world is certainly quite similar in many respects to various legends, and the current stereotype didn't arise for what, forty years after the publishing of LOTR?

FrodoFriend · 01-27-2002, 05:59 PM

I think they get enough of a part. To me, their friendship was always very powerful and an important part of the book, and that's shown really well.

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-27-2002, 06:12 PM

I think Legolas and Gimli got a big enough part. I would like to have more information about the dwarves. Why do you suppose Tolkien didn't give them a very big part as compared to the Elves?

Wayfarer · 01-27-2002, 06:22 PM

I think it was because ME was predominantly an 'elvish' work. Tolkien wasn't interested in the dwarves in the same way... the were part of the legendarium but he didn't develop thier language, history, and etc in the same way.

Legolas · 01-28-2002, 02:25 PM

As I from some posts, a language forum is much needed. There we may discuss Tolkien's languages, and some linguists may provide better info and some thoughts about more words in 'secret' langs.
Do you agree?

Ñólendil · 01-28-2002, 05:12 PM

It's been suggested to me a couple times. Maybe. I'm not sure the forum would get enough posters.

FrodoFriend · 01-29-2002, 02:42 AM

I would go, but probably just to listen in. (Don't speak Quenya or Sindarin - yet!)

Legolas · 01-29-2002, 11:18 AM

Thiat forum wouldn't of course mean that you must speak Quenya or Sindarin or Khuzdul or any other Tolkien lang to post there. There might be some great threads for ones who learn Quenya etc, to polish their skills.

01-27-2002, 01:59 AM	#1
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	Legolas and Gimli did not get a big enough part in the three books do you agree? I dont think that Legolas and Gimli got enough time in the book as perhaps they deserved. We did not here nearly enough about there growing friendship and there idears on the world. All the stuff that was learnt about them was just a Elf, Dwarf stero type. So do you think that the true personality of these to wonderful beings was not put across all that well in the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy?

01-27-2002, 02:41 AM	#2
Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania Posts: 171	Well, in fact you're right, fellow from Mirkwood. But, I liked Legolas most just because he's so secretive and so little there is written about him. BTW, Legolas seems to be very popular. I think there are about 4 Legolases on the boards. __________________ Legolas - a stupid stubborn elf

01-27-2002, 06:31 AM	#4
Radagast Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Merry old England Posts: 413	I think dwarves should have gotten a larger part generally. __________________ Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Last edited by Radagast : 08-05-2004 at 11:33 AM.

01-27-2002, 10:16 AM	#6
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Dwarves are always shafted. Tolkien doesn't give them enough space. And he never tells us what happens to them either. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-27-2002, 11:21 AM	#7
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	And look at the corpus for the dwarven language as compared to the corpus of Quenya. We know about 13 impractical words in Khuzdul and 1000 or more (including suffixes and plurals and such) in Quenya. I really wish the dwarves would have more history and background. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-27-2002, 03:37 AM	#3
Mirkgirl Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6	Actualy Legolas has always recieved enough attention from the readers. But poor Gimli!

01-27-2002, 09:13 AM	#5
sbpollo1 Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 10	It is strange to me that as I read the books when I was younger, Legolas and Gimli seemed to have a much larger role than when I read again and again. Odd how your mind's vision changes with time.

01-27-2002, 12:05 PM	#8
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Well, the lack of dwarvish language in the books is due to the fact that dwarves taught their language to just about nobody! __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

01-27-2002, 02:44 PM	#9
mrs legolas Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 11	poor Legolas I think that Legolas and Gimli had enough parts in the books...though I am only starting the 2nd...so I'll let you know what I think when I'm done...but so far they do have more parts than they do in the movie...poor Legolas hardly got any lines in the movie.... __________________ Veardaiel Legolas Greenleaf

01-27-2002, 03:20 PM	#10
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Exactly, I wish he would have given them there own language not just a "secret" language that they only used in places not described by the book. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-27-2002, 03:44 PM	#11
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I never felt Gimli and Legolas got snubbed. I think we got enough of them alright and I certainly don't think we only got 'stereotypes'. There's two kind of Gimli/Legolas stereotypes I know of: the first is the one they had for eachother as characters, which was put away with altogether in Lothlórien. The second is the Dwarf/Elf stereotype other people outside the story give them, including Peter Jackson. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-27-2002, 05:36 PM	#12
Foul_Dwimmerlaik Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 76	Remember that there was no Dwarf/Elf stereotype until The Lord of the Rings. __________________ Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the lidless eye.

01-27-2002, 05:44 PM	#13
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Begone, Foul dwimmerlaik, ere I smite you! Or something... Actually, tolkien did use a large amount of background information from other sources. Thus his dwarves are smiths, and his elves are fair and powerful. His world is certainly quite similar in many respects to various legends, and the current stereotype didn't arise for what, forty years after the publishing of LOTR? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-27-2002, 05:59 PM	#14
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	I think they get enough of a part. To me, their friendship was always very powerful and an important part of the book, and that's shown really well. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-27-2002, 06:12 PM	#15
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	I think Legolas and Gimli got a big enough part. I would like to have more information about the dwarves. Why do you suppose Tolkien didn't give them a very big part as compared to the Elves? __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-27-2002, 06:22 PM	#16
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I think it was because ME was predominantly an 'elvish' work. Tolkien wasn't interested in the dwarves in the same way... the were part of the legendarium but he didn't develop thier language, history, and etc in the same way. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-28-2002, 02:25 PM	#17
Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania Posts: 171	As I from some posts, a language forum is much needed. There we may discuss Tolkien's languages, and some linguists may provide better info and some thoughts about more words in 'secret' langs. Do you agree? __________________ Legolas - a stupid stubborn elf

01-28-2002, 05:12 PM	#18
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	It's been suggested to me a couple times. Maybe. I'm not sure the forum would get enough posters. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-29-2002, 02:42 AM	#19
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	I would go, but probably just to listen in. (Don't speak Quenya or Sindarin - yet!) __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-29-2002, 11:18 AM	#20
Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania Posts: 171	Thiat forum wouldn't of course mean that you must speak Quenya or Sindarin or Khuzdul or any other Tolkien lang to post there. There might be some great threads for ones who learn Quenya etc, to polish their skills. __________________ Legolas - a stupid stubborn elf

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