Where TT will end, redux: BIG NEWS re: Shelob

[IronParrot]

According to a TORN report from a fan who met Peter Jackson in the recent NY media blitz, Shelob will be in ROTK, not TT.

Yes, this makes more sense, so ROTK isn't just an hour long (being the shortest of the three volumes, even when you include the Scouring, which won't be there, as was confirmed a LONG TIME AGO in case you think this is news).

Yes, this makes even more sense, because chronologically speaking (and TT is being edited chronologically), Frodo and Sam don't reach Cirith Ungol until well after the Siege of Gondor has already begun. In fact, by the time they even leave Henneth Annun, the Grey Company is already taking the Paths of the Dead.

However.

Without TT's perfect ending of Frodo being alive, but taken by the Enemy, and Sam left alone with the Ring - then where does it end?

And more importantly: where's the climax? Considering that Shelob's Lair is easily as climactic in nature as the Bridge of Khazad-dum...

What would be an effective, climactic ending? Darkness flowing out of Mordor? The fumes of Mount Doom filling the sky?

But still - climax? Cliffhanger? The hook that makes us want to see more?

[Galadriel Servant]

What bothers me the most is how the hell can they start a movie with Shelob !? It doesnt seem right...
20 minutes into the film and you get the choices of Samwise, which is supposed to be a really sad moment and get the audience all teary...these kinda things are "film-ending" scenes!!!

I cant think of a way to do such scenes at the beginning of a movie without ruining them...have you ever seen a movie that made you cry on the first 10-20 minutes? I havent.

[IronParrot]

Well... if the Siege of Gondor doesn't begin until ROTK... that would be closer to at least 30 minutes into the film. Which is reasonable - Braveheart, Gladiator, even Star Wars went for tear-jerkers at around that point.

I do agree about Sam's dilemma, though. I really have no idea how this will be handled. I mean, ending Fellowship on the first chapter of TT, from a film perspective, was the very best place to end that film - ending it where Book II ends in LOTR would have been way too abrupt, even if that ending had dramatic impact in print.

The real issue is, we're left without a climax as to the journeys of Frodo, Sam and Gollum in TT.

In fact, the only possible place to end Frodo, Sam and Gollum's journey - and possibly, this would be a fitting end to TT as a movie - is at the Cross-roads:

'They cannot conquer for ever!' said Frodo. And then suddenly the brief glimpse was gone. The Sun dipped and vanished, and as if at the shuttering of a lamp, black night fell.

But that would only work if it's the end of the entire TT movie, not just the Frodo/Sam/Gollum arc.

However. All of this does solve a major, major problem - the possibility that ROTK will be way, way too short - and thus, unbalanced.

[Play Girl]

Well thats all well and good having Shelob in RotK but yes the director is faced with the lack of cliffhanger at the end of TT. But think on this. How far into RotK will Shelob be and the choices of master Samwise. Such an emotional and significant piece of the story cannot be just jammed in at the start with an oh-well-we-had-to-put-it-somewhere sort of aspect to it.
Here is the solution to the problem that they should have used. Screw the time line. Absolutly no one apart form us will actually regester anything is wrong. I didn't even notice the first time I read the book but I did get a little confused but all that can be sorted out by creative editing. Shame on you PJ for spoiling such a beutifull cliff hanger.
Play Girl
xxx

[IronParrot]

Actually, screwing the timeline does pose a problem, because of how Faramir bridges the two stories on his journey from Henneth Annun back to Minas Tirith.

I think, instead of just putting Shelob in conveniently at the beginning of ROTK ("jamming it in at the start"), Frodo and Sam don't even begin to enter Mordor until the third instalment. That way, ROTK chronicles their entire journey through Mordor, from Cirith Ungol to Orodruin.

Otherwise, their role in ROTK is way too small, because - no Scouring.

The presentation of Shelob in ROTK isn't the problem. The ending of the Frodo/Sam/Gollum arc in TT may or may not be a problem. Who knows how it will be done?

[Laurelyn]

Oh, man . . . Y'know, it's rumours and possibilities like these that make the wait for the other movies even worse. Because as hard as it already is to wait for TTT and RotK, with rumours to ponder, and the like, waiting is all that more miserable.

But I really can add anythingmorew to this thread that hasn't already been said. Without the Scouring, RotK will definitly be way too short, so they'll have to do something. Moving Shelob around is definitly something. However, as has been said, that would totally screw up TTT's perfect, perfect ending . . .

[olsonm]

Tolkien never wrote a book called the Two Towers. TTT is an invention of the publishers that Tolkien was never happy with. However, the chronology of Bk III, IV of LoTR is exactly what the professor wanted.

The problem lies in the decision to intercut btw the various storylines. When Sam collapses under Cirith Ungol he and Frodo only have 10 days until Mount Doom. But when Gandalf leaves with Pippin at the end of "The Palantir" there are 19 days until "the Black Gate Opens". This wouldn't cause many problems for TTT but it would for RoTK. By intercutting the film they are implying a real time unfolding of the story. I wouldn't like it to be implied that Sam and Frodo were in Mordor for that long (19 days).

Having said that I think other people have a right to be upset.
For me, though, PJ isn't adapting three books named FoTR, TTT, RoTK. He's adapting one book named the LoTR. By choosing to intercut he had to choose a more chronological adaption.

This is my opinion and I don't mean to oppose it to others opinions. It's just how I feel.

P.S. The non-linear structure of the story is one of my favorite parts of the book. The only film I can think of that reminds me (structurally) of LoTR is Pulp Fiction. PJ evidently wishes to make a more conventional movie.

[olsonm]

Forget my last post. What I was trying to say can be summed like this; shifting Shelob pales in significance to PJ's decision to tell the story linearly. If you can accept that; the changes aren't that big of a deal. Afterall they seem to be staying true to the chronology in the Tale of Years.

Again I wish to stress that this is my personal reaction and I feel others reactions are perfectly valid(obviously).

[emplynx]

You might skim through http://www.theonering.net/archives/m....17.02-2.23.02 this page to check out lots of news about the TT.

[Evenstar]

Originally posted by Galadriel Servant
I cant think of a way to do such scenes at the beginning of a movie without ruining them...have you ever seen a movie that made you cry on the first 10-20 minutes? I havent.

I cried in the first five minutes of Moulin Rouge...cause Christian (Ewan McGregor) said 'The woman I loved is.................dead!!!' I was crying!!! I am an emotional person i suppose!!!
But I do agree with you!!!

In a way I am kind of glad about this because at least I don't have to wait for a year to find Frodo etc!! When I read that in the book I was soooo annoyed that I had to read book 5 before I could read book 6!!!
But I'm annoyed because that would have been the perfect ending!!! AND NOW I HAVE TO WAIT TWO YEARS...before I can see the whole "don't leave me here alone!!! Don't you go where I can't follow!!!" oooh man!!!!

[Evenstar]

I just found the article and I also found these:
The TTT trailer will be added on to FOTR on March 22nd! In one month! (EEK)

-Shelob will be in ROTK, not TTT. (yeah we know this)

-There is NO Scouring of the Shire. PJ stated that the little scene in Galadriel's Mirror was the "homage" to it. (WHAT...I THOUGHT THERE WAS!!!)

-The Gollum/Frodo/Sam relationship will be "intensified." (Intesified how??)

[IronParrot]

For me, though, PJ isn't adapting three books named FoTR, TTT, RoTK. He's adapting one book named the LoTR.

I couldn't agree more.

Evenstar, Moulin Rouge! is a very different film in the respect that Baz Luhrmann's dynamic pace can shift from mood to mood within minutes, completely seamlessly. I mean, one moment Satine's undergone a collapse, and the next we're in an almost parodic rendition of "Like A Virgin". Only Baz could pull that off...

[olsonm]

Glad you agree IronParrot! Means I'm not completely off the wall in my reaction to the news.

By the way, you people are really making me want to see Moulin Rouge!

[IronParrot]

Then see it right away. But if you rent it, make sure you rent it in DVD... you'd have to be crazy not to see this movie in widescreen.

[Evenstar]

Originally posted by olsonm
By the way, you people are really making me want to see Moulin Rouge!

You have to see it!!! It is by far one of the GREATEST movies around!!!!!

[olsonm]

Alright, alright I'll rent it ASAP!

[IronParrot]

Yeah, because until you see it, there's little hope we'll get back to the original topic here. Ahem.

[olsonm]

I think we should wait until TTT is out before we cast judgement.
But I can understand the consternation.

[IronParrot]

Well, it's technically one big movie anyway, with two intermissions. Just like how all the epics of old had one.

[LuthienTinuviel]

im with you, olsonm, you guys should go back to the posts before FotR came out and saw waht ya were thinking..

we are most likely doing the same thing to TTT.
in that case, we can come back to this in about six months and laugh.


i keep on forgetting that it is just a movie..

hmm
ohwell