A Clockwork Orange

Ruinel · 07-31-2003, 08:01 PM

A Clockwork Orange (R-rated) is a movie based on Anthony Burgess's novel (of the same name, I believe).
It stars a young Malcolm McDowell as a violent leader of a brutal gang of thugs in a futuristic, totalitarian England. He is captured and undergoes an experimental treatment in exchange for early release. The experimental treatment causes him to abhor violence to the point of physical illness. He is returned to his environment.... and ... well, I'll not spoil it for others who have not seen it.

So, I would like to know your thoughts on the movie.

***anduin*** · 07-31-2003, 08:17 PM

A great film, but one that I can stand to only watch once. I don't handle violent films of that sort very well.

Ruinel · 07-31-2003, 08:27 PM

It was necessary violence, as disturbing as it was, though. I've seen it twice. It is, however, rough to watch.

***gdl96*** · 08-01-2003, 12:17 AM

I really liked the movie, and I recently read the book, which I also really enjoyed.

Lizra · 08-01-2003, 07:44 AM

Hated it when I saw it about 25 years ago. I have no tolerance for fictional movie violence, as if there isn't enough going on in the real world!

That's just me....very sensitive!

I do not need to pay to be emotionally traumatized!

katya · 08-01-2003, 12:37 PM

i used to have a thread in the general literature forum. I really liked both the book and the movie (and the soundtrack to the movie). I can't say I really minded the violence that much. I guess I'm just not very sensitive anymore. A few years ago though I wouldn't have even dared to watch it. I like the story, the theme I guess. Anyway I have only seen the movie once....oh well...

Nimrodel_White_Lady · 08-01-2003, 02:13 PM

Ive seen the movie a few times before, I did kind of like it, but there was a few bits that were a bit much. But all in all, a good film.

Lizra · 08-01-2003, 03:36 PM

Yeah...I had to do

! I thought the bit about the lady using her computer so much was interesting, considering this was way before the internet and PCs.

Elvellon · 08-02-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
It was necessary violence, as disturbing as it was, though. I've seen it twice. It is, however, rough to watch.

Yes, it shows it without embellishing or glorifying it, making it disturbing in its pointlessness (of violence itself).
Quite an uncommon way of portraying violence in cinema. It speaks of our Human darker side.

The love of the main character for "ol' Ludwig van" was a rather good touch.

Insidious Rex · 08-02-2003, 03:03 PM

wow if you guys found clockwork to be too disturbing to watch what did you think when Kubrick made Full Metal Jacket. Talk about hard core. But both of those were brilliant in the message that was being made by using violence as a tool.

Anyone for a bit of the 'ol ultra violence?

Ruinel · 08-02-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
Hated it when I saw it about 25 years ago. I have no tolerance for fictional movie violence, as if there isn't enough going on in the real world! That's just me....very sensitive! I do not need to pay to be emotionally traumatized!

I'm assuming you were over 18 when you saw the movie, b/c it is quite violent, though as Elvellon pointed out...

Quote:

it shows it without embellishing or glorifying it, making it disturbing in its pointlessness (of violence itself).

And I agree with this assessment of the violence. It made you cringe and overt your eyes (at least me) but it really helped you to understand how horrible McDowell's character (and the other gangs portrayed) really was/were.

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
wow if you guys found clockwork to be too disturbing to watch what did you think when Kubrick made Full Metal Jacket. Talk about hard core. But both of those were brilliant in the message that was being made by using violence as a tool.

Saw it, loved it.

Gritty, raw, real and definitely hard core.

I always felt sorry for the big, soft, dopey guy (I won't tell more, I don't want to spoil it for you folks).

Lizra · 08-02-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
wow if you guys found clockwork to be too disturbing to watch what did you think when Kubrick made Full Metal Jacket. Talk about hard core. But both of those were brilliant in the message that was being made by using violence as a tool.

Anyone for a bit of the 'ol ultra violence?

What did I do? Refuse to see it!

Probably one reason I don't "do" movies! I cannot tolerate entertainment violence! The real world is so full of sadness and grief, it's all I can do to keep on going despite it all. When I sit down to watch something that is supposed to be entertainment.....you better not throw any violence my way, I'm struggling to forget that kind of stuff and keep my attitude positive as it is!

I have never understood how people can find "acted" violence (the really heavy handed stuff, you know the post Bonnie and Clyde movies) entertaining. Now, because I have sat through it enough times, and know what to expect...I can enjoy the Godfather movies. That's about it though.

My daughter is the same way. When I was growing up, my family didn't watch much tv, just the news and light hearted fair...so I just never got desensitized (?) enough to relax and enjoy "sensational drama". I know...it's not real....but what "is real", is out there, and happening, and it's is far worse...because it is real! I don't know, I even have a hard time with suspense!

I don't think I'm missing much though! Ugh...that stuff just stays with me for days and makes me depressed to no end!

So anyway....what was the message being made, that had to be spelled out so sensationally? War is terrible? Duh.....

I don't know....I prefer to leave some things to the imagination, rather than being hit over the head with a sledge hammer repeatedly...but that's just me I guess!

Ruinel · 08-02-2003, 06:01 PM

http://wso.williams.edu/~mhacker/Clockwork/gangbar2.jpg
A pic from the movie, Alex and his gang, the droogs.

Insidious Rex · 08-02-2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
So anyway....what was the message being made, that had to be spelled out so sensationally? War is terrible? Duh..... I don't know....I prefer to leave some things to the imagination, rather than being hit over the head with a sledge hammer repeatedly...but that's just me I guess!

It was more the whole surrealistic gruesome farce that was the Vietnam War. And that war and the violence necessary in war breeds pathos and spiritual and psychological ruin (never mind physical destruction). The violence is not Terminator blow up * yawn * stuff. Its more psychologically gruesome and disturbing then visually. Its sad and empty and brutal and ironic and morbidly laughable all at the same time. And that’s really hard to do in any art medium. Gotta give him some credit for that. Basically the message is “theres something really wrong here” but its not JUST that people are being killed. Its deeper then that. It’s a shot at the whole armed forces politico-psychology in the face of purposeless military action. And it’s a glimpse into the mind of individuals faced with the most bleak and brutal of all situations. How do you survive it? What does it take? And Kubrick shows you.

***gdl96*** · 08-02-2003, 09:37 PM

Nicely said, Rex

Lizra · 08-02-2003, 10:08 PM

Yes that is nicely said

...but I still am not comfortable with someone else manipulating my emotions to fit their interperation of a subject that has touched and will continue to touch so many people. (Soldiers and their families) I haven't seen that particular movie (maybe when I go to "Hell"

they'll strap me down and make me watch it!

) ....my husband tries to watch Apocalyspe Now, or other modern war movies.....but it doesn't last long if I'm around! I pretty much freak out! I also dislike the power music soundtracks that seem to be popular with these gruesome images. For some reason ? I find this disturbing and somewhat sick.

I don't know....Maybe there is something to it, but these types of movies tend to shatter my psyche.

Added..I'm not saying it's wrong to make these kinds of movies (as long as the violence isn't glorified, which somehow, Clockwork Orange managed a little of in the early punk era, which is when I saw it.) I'm just explaining my personal reaction to them. Too much empathy on my part!
The Viet Nam war was real, and about as warped and sick as anything could get. It went on so long. I remember the endless war news, every night....Walter Cronkite reporting the casulties, the endless names of the various battles, all the war terms so ingrained in our heads.

I couldn't hardly believe it when it was finally over!

Ruinel · 08-02-2003, 10:46 PM

IR, I love what you said. Very well put, indeed.

In Kubrics A Clockwork Orange, Alex (Malcom McDowell) senselessly beats, brutalizes, rapes, and murders as the leader of his droogs because it gives him pleasure to do so. He even beats the members of his own gang to show them who is boss. It is not that he is forced into a violent life, he chooses this path because of the psychological rewards he gets from it. Even when the members of his gang offer a plan for higher acts of crime to obtain more money, he rejects it... because that is NOT what he is after.

The violence and brutality in the movie is there to keep the audience from sympathizing with Alex when he finally becomes a victim of a new experimental form of treatment to rid him of his violent tendencies.

Edit:
Lizra, off topic, but I thought I would mention... when I was in high school, our text book had one paragraph about the Vietnam War. When I asked my teacher what it was about, she said I didn't need to know it, it wouldn't be on the test. I had to find out on my own. Kinda sad, isn't it.

Insidious Rex · 08-03-2003, 12:39 AM

easy. dont lead them as much....

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
my husband tries to watch Apocalyspe Now, or other modern war movies.....but it doesn't last long if I'm around! I pretty much freak out!

oh yeah if you cant take apocalypse now then dont watch full metal jacket. but they ARE both phenomenal movies. Apocalypse now is really quite unparalleled and even filming it was a journey into the darkest realms of the human psyche apparently.

Quote:

I also dislike the power music soundtracks that seem to be popular with these gruesome images. For some reason ? I find this disturbing and somewhat sick.

well kubrik takes this to new heights and adds a bizarre twist. at the end of full metal jacket after this hair razing scene involving a young sniper in a burned out city and another sad senseless death all the soldiers are marching along whisting the theme from mickey mouse. Its pretty surreal.

Sheeana · 08-03-2003, 02:00 AM

I am a HUGE Kubrick fan - my favourite movie of all time is 2001, but CO rates pretty highly as well. Last film festival, they showed it on the big screen. I believe that it may well have been the first time on the big screen in NZ as I heard that it was banned when it came out.

GrayMouser · 08-04-2003, 07:51 AM

One of my favorites, though when I took my girlfriend to see it when it first came out she wouldn't talk to me for a week (strange, she liked the "Dead Babies " sequence in the Alice Cooper concert tour of the same time)

07-31-2003, 08:01 PM	#1
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	A Clockwork Orange A Clockwork Orange (R-rated) is a movie based on Anthony Burgess's novel (of the same name, I believe). It stars a young Malcolm McDowell as a violent leader of a brutal gang of thugs in a futuristic, totalitarian England. He is captured and undergoes an experimental treatment in exchange for early release. The experimental treatment causes him to abhor violence to the point of physical illness. He is returned to his environment.... and ... well, I'll not spoil it for others who have not seen it. So, I would like to know your thoughts on the movie.

07-31-2003, 08:17 PM	#2
*anduin* Entwife Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: louisville Posts: 3,718	A great film, but one that I can stand to only watch once. I don't handle violent films of that sort very well. __________________ Far away across the field The tolling of the iron bell Calls the faithful to their knees To hear the softly spoken magic spells.

08-01-2003, 07:44 AM	#5
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Hated it when I saw it about 25 years ago. I have no tolerance for fictional movie violence, as if there isn't enough going on in the real world! That's just me....very sensitive! I do not need to pay to be emotionally traumatized! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

08-01-2003, 02:13 PM	#7
Nimrodel_White_Lady Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Pond Posts: 19	Ive seen the movie a few times before, I did kind of like it, but there was a few bits that were a bit much. But all in all, a good film. __________________ "Your absolutely right! Here's luck to you Will!" "A red sun rises, blood has been spilt on this night" Arrr to the Elven Pirate... savvy? Arrr ye be a muppet -------> =0

08-01-2003, 03:36 PM	#8
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Yeah...I had to do ! I thought the bit about the lady using her computer so much was interesting, considering this was way before the internet and PCs. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

07-31-2003, 08:27 PM	#3
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	It was necessary violence, as disturbing as it was, though. I've seen it twice. It is, however, rough to watch.

08-01-2003, 12:17 AM	#4
*gdl96* the greg the admin Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: NJ Posts: 2,101	I really liked the movie, and I recently read the book, which I also really enjoyed.

08-01-2003, 12:37 PM	#6
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	i used to have a thread in the general literature forum. I really liked both the book and the movie (and the soundtrack to the movie). I can't say I really minded the violence that much. I guess I'm just not very sensitive anymore. A few years ago though I wouldn't have even dared to watch it. I like the story, the theme I guess. Anyway I have only seen the movie once....oh well...

08-02-2003, 03:03 PM	#10
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	wow if you guys found clockwork to be too disturbing to watch what did you think when Kubrick made Full Metal Jacket. Talk about hard core. But both of those were brilliant in the message that was being made by using violence as a tool. Anyone for a bit of the 'ol ultra violence? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

08-02-2003, 06:01 PM	#13
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	http://wso.williams.edu/~mhacker/Clockwork/gangbar2.jpg A pic from the movie, Alex and his gang, the droogs.

08-02-2003, 09:37 PM	#15
*gdl96* the greg the admin Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: NJ Posts: 2,101	Nicely said, Rex

08-02-2003, 10:08 PM	#16
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Yes that is nicely said ...but I still am not comfortable with someone else manipulating my emotions to fit their interperation of a subject that has touched and will continue to touch so many people. (Soldiers and their families) I haven't seen that particular movie (maybe when I go to "Hell" they'll strap me down and make me watch it! ) ....my husband tries to watch Apocalyspe Now, or other modern war movies.....but it doesn't last long if I'm around! I pretty much freak out! I also dislike the power music soundtracks that seem to be popular with these gruesome images. For some reason ? I find this disturbing and somewhat sick. I don't know....Maybe there is something to it, but these types of movies tend to shatter my psyche. Added..I'm not saying it's wrong to make these kinds of movies (as long as the violence isn't glorified, which somehow, Clockwork Orange managed a little of in the early punk era, which is when I saw it.) I'm just explaining my personal reaction to them. Too much empathy on my part! The Viet Nam war was real, and about as warped and sick as anything could get. It went on so long. I remember the endless war news, every night....Walter Cronkite reporting the casulties, the endless names of the various battles, all the war terms so ingrained in our heads. I couldn't hardly believe it when it was finally over! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 08-02-2003 at 10:40 PM.

08-02-2003, 10:46 PM	#17
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	IR, I love what you said. Very well put, indeed. In Kubrics A Clockwork Orange, Alex (Malcom McDowell) senselessly beats, brutalizes, rapes, and murders as the leader of his droogs because it gives him pleasure to do so. He even beats the members of his own gang to show them who is boss. It is not that he is forced into a violent life, he chooses this path because of the psychological rewards he gets from it. Even when the members of his gang offer a plan for higher acts of crime to obtain more money, he rejects it... because that is NOT what he is after. The violence and brutality in the movie is there to keep the audience from sympathizing with Alex when he finally becomes a victim of a new experimental form of treatment to rid him of his violent tendencies. Edit: Lizra, off topic, but I thought I would mention... when I was in high school, our text book had one paragraph about the Vietnam War. When I asked my teacher what it was about, she said I didn't need to know it, it wouldn't be on the test. I had to find out on my own. Kinda sad, isn't it. Last edited by Ruinel : 08-02-2003 at 10:48 PM.

08-03-2003, 02:00 AM	#19
Sheeana Lord of the Pants Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,382	I am a HUGE Kubrick fan - my favourite movie of all time is 2001, but CO rates pretty highly as well. Last film festival, they showed it on the big screen. I believe that it may well have been the first time on the big screen in NZ as I heard that it was banned when it came out.

08-04-2003, 07:51 AM	#20
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	One of my favorites, though when I took my girlfriend to see it when it first came out she wouldn't talk to me for a week (strange, she liked the "Dead Babies " sequence in the Alice Cooper concert tour of the same time) __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

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