You as Cirdan/Elrond at Mount Doom

afro-elf · 03-19-2002, 12:15 PM

If you were Cirdan/Elrond at Mt.doom and isildur had claimed the ring what would you have done?

The White Rider · 03-19-2002, 12:36 PM

I would have taken the risk of driving Isildur insane and hit him. Hopefully the ring would have fallen in or he would've. Doesn't matter either way

!

ArwenEvenstar · 03-19-2002, 12:39 PM

thats a little harsh...

I would have grabbed him and snatched the ring and threw it in the fire and dragged Ilsidur out of Mt. Doom.

And I know that sounds retarded....

Ñólendil · 03-19-2002, 12:50 PM

Ah, but do you think you could have merely threw the Ring in? Frodo found himself unable to throw the Ring into his fireplace.

Twilight · 03-19-2002, 01:52 PM

I think an elflord would be able to throw it in it if they only held the ring for a few seconds before throwing it. I don't think Isildor would have voluntarily given it up, no matter what happened. You would have to beat him up farily badly to get it from him. Maybe use a long set of tongs or something so that you wouldn't have to get near the ring. Gandalf seemed to be okay when he did that.

Pailan · 03-19-2002, 02:34 PM

If I were one of the Elf lords present when Isildur took the ring I might have been tempted to let him keep it. Because if the one were to be destroyed it might (as was later proved) render usless my elven ring of power. And if my ring were no longer powerful, I would tire of ME that much faster. Eveyones fate was tied into Isldur's actions. Thus the temptation to let things be would be great.

afro-elf · 03-19-2002, 03:04 PM

I do believe that Cirdan and Elrond pleaded with Isildur to destroy the ring. Even though they both had elven rings at the time.

I thing that cirdan and elrond could have both physically taken the ring from him and tossed it perhaps in with their daggers or whatever

Pailan · 03-19-2002, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf

I thing that cirdan and elrond could have both physically taken the ring from him and tossed it perhaps in with their daggers or whatever

Yes, they could've but didn't.
What would youhave done in their place?

Wayfarer · 03-19-2002, 07:35 PM

I would have run him through, and tossed the corpse into the lava, ring and all.

Remember, elrond had just gotten his elven ring, so he wouldn't have been that attached to it.

Nibs · 03-19-2002, 08:43 PM

Running him through would have been rather harsh, to say the least. I'd have pulled something like "Look! It's Ar-Pharazon!" and snatched his precious heirloom and thrown it into the magma before he could turn his head and squeal like a girl.

Perhaps if it weren't for his deeds previous, I would run him through myself.

Ñólendil · 03-19-2002, 08:48 PM

Quote:

I would have run him through, and tossed the corpse into the lava, ring and all.

Empty words from a guy who already sold himself out as a Nienna admirer.

Wayfarer · 03-19-2002, 10:28 PM

Alas! Too true!

On the other hand, I have quite a reputation as a socio-psychotic.

afro-elf · 03-20-2002, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pailan

Yes, they could've but didn't.
What would youhave done in their place?

I would have forced it from him. ( of course knowing what I know now as me)

In tolkien's writings, does it mention it happening like the movie or he took it for himself on the battlefield and never approached the cracks of doom.

If the armies of the elves and men were close by then a war could have broken out then.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-20-2002, 01:13 AM

I would have probably tried to force the Ring from him and toss it in myself. Key word: tried.

Arathorn · 03-20-2002, 02:19 AM

I wouldn't know how I would've done 'itl it actually happenned but I have weird images of Elrond biting Isildur's finger off assuming he wore it on one and dancing his way off the edge.

Xivigg · 03-20-2002, 04:55 AM

I would have done exactely the same as Elrond and Cirdan

The ring got a will of is own and a powerfull one, born from Sauron's. It's first motivation is self preservation and finding a way back to his master.

At that time the master was unavailable so self preservation take precedent.

Were you Elf lord or a mighty wizzard or a powerfull leader take the ring just an instant and you'll find so many more usefull, peacefull, use to the ring.

Also in all Tolkien work the line between good and evil s a small one. Taking the ring by force would give the ring power over someone as it did to Smeagol/Gollum. It would make you hesitate for a moment, and during that moment the ring would convince you why you should not destroy it.

The true Elven Lord understand this and therefore can't do anything.

Evenstar · 03-20-2002, 07:03 AM

I would have spear tackled him into the fire!!!

Nah I would have done what Gollum did and bit his finger off!!!

Nah I would have freaked and ran crying *we are doomed...we are DOOMED!!!!*

bropous · 03-21-2002, 02:11 AM

It would have been really tragic if the Last Alliance of Elves and Men had ended up being the First War of Elves and Men. It surely may have had Elrond taken the One Ring from Isildur and thrown it into the fire.

Now, where else is the scene at Orodruin covered other than the brief mention in the book during the Council of Elrond? Is there some material in HoME which goes into greater detail?

"Alas! yes," said Elrond. "Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his fahter in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel." FotR, page 273.

So, although they didn't see Isildur take it, Elrond and Cirdan advised he throw it in, and he refused. ??? Anyways, had they set upon him to take it, for he would not have surrendered willingly, he may have put the ring on, got to the core of his troops and ordered an attack on the "treacherous Elves". The Elves and men would have set upon each other and the Ring would do its work to set up Isildur as a new "Dark Lord" til its original master came back to claim it. And what an interesting tale THAT would have been.....Imagine, Sauron going to the Shire to hire a Hobbit burglar to steal the ring from the the Dark Lord Isildur....

afro-elf · 03-21-2002, 02:27 AM

Quote:

So, although they didn't see Isildur take it, Elrond and Cirdan advised he throw it in, and he refused. ???

Bropous your answer is in your own post

Quote:

But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his fahter in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel." FotR, page 273.

FEW marked..... not no one. assuming also that he and cirdan were among the few

A battle may have insued but it was think that to eldarin lords could take one numenorean lord before you placed on his finger or at least grappled with him even if invisible they would know were his hand was

Xivigg · 03-21-2002, 04:29 AM

Killing the last of men king would have without any doubt start a raging war between elves and men. Even if they were "alone" in the battlefield they were still on a battlefield wich mean a few hundreath witness of 2 elvish lord murdering a men for a little ring ???

how more evil can someone goes ?

03-19-2002, 12:15 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	You as Cirdan/Elrond at Mount Doom If you were Cirdan/Elrond at Mt.doom and isildur had claimed the ring what would you have done? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-19-2002, 12:36 PM	#2
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	I would have taken the risk of driving Isildur insane and hit him. Hopefully the ring would have fallen in or he would've. Doesn't matter either way! __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me.

03-19-2002, 12:39 PM	#3
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	thats a little harsh... I would have grabbed him and snatched the ring and threw it in the fire and dragged Ilsidur out of Mt. Doom. And I know that sounds retarded.... __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

03-19-2002, 12:50 PM	#4
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Ah, but do you think you could have merely threw the Ring in? Frodo found himself unable to throw the Ring into his fireplace. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

03-19-2002, 01:52 PM	#5
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	I think an elflord would be able to throw it in it if they only held the ring for a few seconds before throwing it. I don't think Isildor would have voluntarily given it up, no matter what happened. You would have to beat him up farily badly to get it from him. Maybe use a long set of tongs or something so that you wouldn't have to get near the ring. Gandalf seemed to be okay when he did that. __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

03-19-2002, 02:34 PM	#6
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	If I were one of the Elf lords present when Isildur took the ring I might have been tempted to let him keep it. Because if the one were to be destroyed it might (as was later proved) render usless my elven ring of power. And if my ring were no longer powerful, I would tire of ME that much faster. Eveyones fate was tied into Isldur's actions. Thus the temptation to let things be would be great. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

03-19-2002, 03:04 PM	#7
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I do believe that Cirdan and Elrond pleaded with Isildur to destroy the ring. Even though they both had elven rings at the time. I thing that cirdan and elrond could have both physically taken the ring from him and tossed it perhaps in with their daggers or whatever __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-19-2002, 07:35 PM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I would have run him through, and tossed the corpse into the lava, ring and all. Remember, elrond had just gotten his elven ring, so he wouldn't have been that attached to it. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-19-2002, 08:43 PM	#10
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	Running him through would have been rather harsh, to say the least. I'd have pulled something like "Look! It's Ar-Pharazon!" and snatched his precious heirloom and thrown it into the magma before he could turn his head and squeal like a girl. Perhaps if it weren't for his deeds previous, I would run him through myself. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

03-19-2002, 10:28 PM	#12
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Alas! Too true! On the other hand, I have quite a reputation as a socio-psychotic. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-20-2002, 01:13 AM	#14
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I would have probably tried to force the Ring from him and toss it in myself. Key word: tried. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-20-2002, 02:19 AM	#15
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	I wouldn't know how I would've done 'itl it actually happenned but I have weird images of Elrond biting Isildur's finger off assuming he wore it on one and dancing his way off the edge. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 03-20-2002 at 07:17 AM.

03-20-2002, 04:55 AM	#16
Xivigg Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Earth Posts: 495	I would have done exactely the same as Elrond and Cirdan The ring got a will of is own and a powerfull one, born from Sauron's. It's first motivation is self preservation and finding a way back to his master. At that time the master was unavailable so self preservation take precedent. Were you Elf lord or a mighty wizzard or a powerfull leader take the ring just an instant and you'll find so many more usefull, peacefull, use to the ring. Also in all Tolkien work the line between good and evil s a small one. Taking the ring by force would give the ring power over someone as it did to Smeagol/Gollum. It would make you hesitate for a moment, and during that moment the ring would convince you why you should not destroy it. The true Elven Lord understand this and therefore can't do anything. __________________ Thinking before acting is alway's a good idea.

03-20-2002, 07:03 AM	#17
Evenstar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Neverneverland Posts: 215	I would have spear tackled him into the fire!!! Nah I would have done what Gollum did and bit his finger off!!! Nah I would have freaked and ran crying we are doomed...we are DOOMED!!!! __________________ "Frodo, Mr Frodo," he called. "Don't leave me here alone. It's your Sam calling. Don't you go where I can't follow." FRODO LIVES !!!!

03-21-2002, 02:11 AM	#18
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	It would have been really tragic if the Last Alliance of Elves and Men had ended up being the First War of Elves and Men. It surely may have had Elrond taken the One Ring from Isildur and thrown it into the fire. Now, where else is the scene at Orodruin covered other than the brief mention in the book during the Council of Elrond? Is there some material in HoME which goes into greater detail? "Alas! yes," said Elrond. "Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his fahter in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel." FotR, page 273. So, although they didn't see Isildur take it, Elrond and Cirdan advised he throw it in, and he refused. ??? Anyways, had they set upon him to take it, for he would not have surrendered willingly, he may have put the ring on, got to the core of his troops and ordered an attack on the "treacherous Elves". The Elves and men would have set upon each other and the Ring would do its work to set up Isildur as a new "Dark Lord" til its original master came back to claim it. And what an interesting tale THAT would have been.....Imagine, Sauron going to the Shire to hire a Hobbit burglar to steal the ring from the the Dark Lord Isildur.... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-21-2002, 04:29 AM	#20
Xivigg Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Earth Posts: 495	Killing the last of men king would have without any doubt start a raging war between elves and men. Even if they were "alone" in the battlefield they were still on a battlefield wich mean a few hundreath witness of 2 elvish lord murdering a men for a little ring ??? how more evil can someone goes ? __________________ Thinking before acting is alway's a good idea.

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