who is oldest?

Quickbeam · 10-31-2001, 09:26 PM

Ok., I know this thread has been on here a hundred different times, but who is the oldest? is it treebeard? or is it Bombadil? I think It's one of them. That may just be in midle Earth. So are there any other oldests you'de like to share? oldest in middle earth. Oldest anywhere. Oldest from other ages, first or second. person that lived longest ago that isn't alive (maybe they talk about where everything started) I don't know much about history as I've only read half of LOTR so far, and the hobit and no others. thanks.

***Tessar*** · 11-01-2001, 01:23 AM

I think its bobadil. (but im no historian. im prob wrong)

remember how he said he saw all the things come? the elves and the trees and stuff.

Renille · 11-01-2001, 01:29 AM

Well, Eru would certainly be the oldest, as he created everything else. But if you mean mortal or elf or other, I have to say I forgot.

(I've only read half of the Silm. ...I have to save the other half until after quarter exams.)

Quickbeam · 11-01-2001, 01:41 AM

Eru huh. sounds interesting. So is he in the Silmarillion? any other ideas about who is oldest? maybe a better historian (not that you guys don't know your stuff)

Finglas · 11-01-2001, 05:54 PM

"Treebeard... is the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the sun upon this Middle Earth" (The Two Towers, 488)

'Nuff said

Strange-Looking Lurker · 11-01-2001, 06:31 PM

well, Mr. Bombidil said he was the oldest thing around, though, didn't he? I think he did anyway...

</end pointless post>

Wayfarer · 11-01-2001, 06:41 PM

Bombadil, hand's down.

The ents learned to speak from the elves, didn't they? So even though they were created by yavanna (sort of) I don't know if they were older than elves.

In any case, there is a very good argument that Bombadil was in Arda before even Melkor. That makes him the oldest.

Finglas · 11-01-2001, 07:17 PM

"When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also," (The Simarilion, 46)

The "thought of Yavanna" = the ents. This means that the elves and the ents were born at the same time. If Bombadil is an elf (I don't know. Is he?) then Fangorn and Bombadil could be the same age.

Quickbeam · 11-01-2001, 08:17 PM

wow, I didn't expect much controversy. But any other thoughts on bombadil and treebeard?

Comic Book Guy · 11-01-2001, 08:30 PM

Bombadil is eldest, he is not an elf,

Quote:

When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already

He seems older than Melkor,

Quote:

before the Dark Lord came from Outside

And he said himself he is eldest.

Quote:

Eldest, that's what I am.

If Treebeard is the eldest living thing on Middle-Earth, does that mean Bombadil is dead?

Renille · 11-01-2001, 11:56 PM

Maybe Bombadil and Treebeard were created at the exact same time...that would explain how they both are "eldest."

***Tessar*** · 11-02-2001, 01:31 AM

what exactly is bombadil?

i know he is the master of the woods and whatever but i mean like is he a eru typ of thing?
or is he just old?

arynetrek · 11-02-2001, 01:50 AM

(supposed to be earlier in the thread, but my original post fell into a black hole)

i get the impression Bombadil is a creature of the world, similar to the Elves but older - but the Ainur were around BEFORE the world, so for oldest in ME it'd be a competition between Olorin, Saruman (can't remember his other name), Sauron, etc. etc.

unless my personal Bombadil theory is wrong & he really IS Eru or a Vala or a Maia...

the Bombadil debate will never end. according to various theories, he is a Vala (i've heard Aule, which makes little sense; & Irmo, which makes slightly more); a Maia (maybe of Yavanna), Eru himself, a forest-spirit similar to an Ent, a rare breed of Elf/Man/Hobbit (?!?!?!), the alter-ego of the Witch-King (long live the Tolkien Sarcasm Page!)... there's a thread about Bombadil in the LotR section, try looking there for explanations

personally i agree with JRRT: in every world there are enigmas, and Bombadil is one of them. (source: a Letter, #200-something)

and to whoever asked about Eru - he is the creator of the world, began the music of creation which made the ainur, he through the ainur created arda. see the ainulindale (sp?) at the beginning of Sil.

aryne *

Ñólendil · 11-02-2001, 07:09 PM

As I've said before, Tom as Eldest + Treebeard as oldest living thing = Tom is not a living thing, but a spirit. In the Lord of the Rings, the oldest characters are of course Radagast, Saruman, Gandalf, the Balrog and Sauron.

Please, we've been through the Bombadil debates too many times. I personally would greatly appreciate it if you wondered about Bombadil's identity in one of the old threads that deal with this.

arynetrek · 11-02-2001, 11:10 PM

sorry

aryne *

Ñólendil · 11-02-2001, 11:49 PM

I'm not angry or anything. I didn't say it as a mod., but a very frightened human being.

arynetrek · 11-03-2001, 08:04 PM

that's OK, i just had negative-time to respond to that thread (hence the shortness).

aryne *

Kirinki54 · 11-04-2001, 03:23 PM

I think I have seen that Cirdan was probably the eldest Elf at about 7.000 years. Could this be correct?

arynetrek · 11-04-2001, 09:17 PM

i think Galadriel is around 8000 when she leaves ME.

aryne*

Kirinki54 · 11-05-2001, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arynetrek
i think Galadriel is around 8000 when she leaves ME.

aryne*

So is she older than Cirdan, or was I wrong about his age?

She doesn´t have a long beard anyway...

10-31-2001, 09:26 PM	#1
Quickbeam Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	who is oldest? Ok., I know this thread has been on here a hundred different times, but who is the oldest? is it treebeard? or is it Bombadil? I think It's one of them. That may just be in midle Earth. So are there any other oldests you'de like to share? oldest in middle earth. Oldest anywhere. Oldest from other ages, first or second. person that lived longest ago that isn't alive (maybe they talk about where everything started) I don't know much about history as I've only read half of LOTR so far, and the hobit and no others. thanks.

11-01-2001, 01:29 AM	#3
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	Well, Eru would certainly be the oldest, as he created everything else. But if you mean mortal or elf or other, I have to say I forgot. (I've only read half of the Silm. ...I have to save the other half until after quarter exams.) __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

11-01-2001, 01:41 AM	#4
Quickbeam Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	eru Eru huh. sounds interesting. So is he in the Silmarillion? any other ideas about who is oldest? maybe a better historian (not that you guys don't know your stuff)

11-01-2001, 06:31 PM	#6
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	well, Mr. Bombidil said he was the oldest thing around, though, didn't he? I think he did anyway... </end pointless post> __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

11-01-2001, 06:41 PM	#7
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Bombadil, hand's down. The ents learned to speak from the elves, didn't they? So even though they were created by yavanna (sort of) I don't know if they were older than elves. In any case, there is a very good argument that Bombadil was in Arda before even Melkor. That makes him the oldest. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

11-01-2001, 01:23 AM	#2
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	I think its bobadil. (but im no historian. im prob wrong) remember how he said he saw all the things come? the elves and the trees and stuff.

11-01-2001, 05:54 PM	#5
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	"Treebeard... is the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the sun upon this Middle Earth" (The Two Towers, 488) 'Nuff said

11-01-2001, 07:17 PM	#8
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	"When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also," (The Simarilion, 46) The "thought of Yavanna" = the ents. This means that the elves and the ents were born at the same time. If Bombadil is an elf (I don't know. Is he?) then Fangorn and Bombadil could be the same age.

11-01-2001, 08:17 PM	#9
Quickbeam Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	wow wow, I didn't expect much controversy. But any other thoughts on bombadil and treebeard?

11-01-2001, 11:56 PM	#11
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	Maybe Bombadil and Treebeard were created at the exact same time...that would explain how they both are "eldest." __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

11-02-2001, 01:31 AM	#12
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	what exactly is bombadil? i know he is the master of the woods and whatever but i mean like is he a eru typ of thing? or is he just old?

11-02-2001, 01:50 AM	#13
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	well, it seems that the comp ate my post... (supposed to be earlier in the thread, but my original post fell into a black hole) i get the impression Bombadil is a creature of the world, similar to the Elves but older - but the Ainur were around BEFORE the world, so for oldest in ME it'd be a competition between Olorin, Saruman (can't remember his other name), Sauron, etc. etc. unless my personal Bombadil theory is wrong & he really IS Eru or a Vala or a Maia... the Bombadil debate will never end. according to various theories, he is a Vala (i've heard Aule, which makes little sense; & Irmo, which makes slightly more); a Maia (maybe of Yavanna), Eru himself, a forest-spirit similar to an Ent, a rare breed of Elf/Man/Hobbit (?!?!?!), the alter-ego of the Witch-King (long live the Tolkien Sarcasm Page!)... there's a thread about Bombadil in the LotR section, try looking there for explanations personally i agree with JRRT: in every world there are enigmas, and Bombadil is one of them. (source: a Letter, #200-something) and to whoever asked about Eru - he is the creator of the world, began the music of creation which made the ainur, he through the ainur created arda. see the ainulindale (sp?) at the beginning of Sil. aryne * Last edited by arynetrek : 11-02-2001 at 01:56 AM.

11-02-2001, 07:09 PM	#14
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	As I've said before, Tom as Eldest + Treebeard as oldest living thing = Tom is not a living thing, but a spirit. In the Lord of the Rings, the oldest characters are of course Radagast, Saruman, Gandalf, the Balrog and Sauron. Please, we've been through the Bombadil debates too many times. I personally would greatly appreciate it if you wondered about Bombadil's identity in one of the old threads that deal with this. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-02-2001, 11:10 PM	#15
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	sorry aryne *

11-02-2001, 11:49 PM	#16
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I'm not angry or anything. I didn't say it as a mod., but a very frightened human being. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-03-2001, 08:04 PM	#17
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	that's OK, i just had negative-time to respond to that thread (hence the shortness). aryne *

11-04-2001, 03:23 PM	#18
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	Oldest Elf? I think I have seen that Cirdan was probably the eldest Elf at about 7.000 years. Could this be correct?

11-04-2001, 09:17 PM	#19
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	if we're going to talk about eldest Elves... i think Galadriel is around 8000 when she leaves ME. aryne*

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