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#1 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 796
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Gundabad history
I am confused about Gundabad, the mountain in the North of the Misty Mountains.
Originally it was a dwarven kingdom (First Age??) Then it passed to orcs and became their capitol. But when was it taken? Who knows anything about Gundabad history? Help is needed! |
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#2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
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legend has it there is a great orc tavern there where all the orcs drink and fight....
web-search, source 1) tuckborough.net/mountains.html Gundabad Mountain in the Misty Mountains. Mount Gundabad was located in the far northern Misty Mountains, near the western end of the Grey Mountains. It was a large mountain and it stood apart from the others in the range. According to the legends of the Dwarves, Mount Gundabad was where Durin, the eldest of the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves, awoke in ancient times. For this reason, the mountain was revered by the Dwarves. In the middle of the Second Age, Orcs invaded the mountains and claimed Mount Gundabad, which became their capital. The Dwarves resented this desecration of the waking place of their great ancestor and it fueled their hatred for the Orcs. During the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs (2793-2799), the Dwarves assailed and sacked the Orc stronghold at Gundabad. But the Orcs later regrouped, and in 2941 a vast host of Orcs and Wargs gathered at Mount Gundabad and marched to the Lonely Mountain, where they were defeated by the Dwarves, Wood-Elves, and Lake-Men in the Battle of the Five Armies. Other Names: Also called Gundabad of the North. Etymology: The name Gundabad is Dwarvish in origin. It is most likely derived from gunud meaning "delve underground, excavate, tunnel" and gundu meaning "underground hall." Sources: The Hobbit: "The Clouds Burst," p. 292-93 and Map of Wilderland Appendix A: "Durin's Folk," p. 355 The History of Middle-earth, vol. XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth: "Of Dwarves and Men," p. 301, 305, 322-23 note 25; "The Shibboleth of Feanor," p. 352 Source 2) web search, frankly can't be bothered to name the source ![]() The Orcs of the Misty Mountains had a city under Mount Gundabad in the far north. Tolkien may have intended this to be the successor of Carn Dum, the capitol city of Angmar, which was destroyed in the 20th century TA. Bunch of old tosh 3) Orcs There were many different tribes of Orcs, and although there was cooperation within the tribe, between tribes Orcs hated each other as much as they did everything else. However, there was some organization among tribes, and the Orcs of the Misty Mountains had a capital, Gundabad. Cooperation was, not surprisingly, greater in wartime, when large numbers of Orcs, often under the control of Sauron, were able to work together to fight the Free Peoples. Last edited by Butterbeer : 07-27-2005 at 05:45 PM. |
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#3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
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I couldn't really find anything about the mountain, except one mention in the Appendix, saying the Dwarves cleaned the place of orcs before Nanduhirion, in revenge of the murder of Thror.
I suppose that if it was a Dwarven kingdom before, it was attacked at around 1300 Third Age (it is said in the Tale of the Years that at this time orcs came to the Misty Mountains and attacked the dwarves). |
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#4 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thanks, BB and Radagast!
Quote:
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#5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
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Yeah, it seems so... also wikipedia agrees with me -
Quote:
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#6 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
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So it looks like there were dwarves, not orcs there by the time of LOTR?
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#7 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
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the majority of orcs from the battle of five armies i.e. bilbo's time were from gundabad. so it was orc held then.
In the times of The war of orcs and dwarves which was before the battle of five armies the dwarves may have sacked it, but not held it and therefore we can reasonably assume the orcs later gathered there again and were there established by the time of LOTR. |
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#8 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Right, BB!
Let's go there for a drink then... |
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#9 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
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and maybe a bite to eat?
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#10 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany
Posts: 192
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Gundabad was first captured by Orcs in the early second Age, when band of orks flying from the War of Wrath thought for a new home. But the Dwarves of Dúrins race formed a alliance with the northmen, defested the Orcs and recaptured Gundabad.
When Sauron attacked the Elves in Eriador in the middle of the second Age he had also led an attack on the alliance of Dwarves and Men, which was much more successful: the alliance was destroyed, then Men were driven into povertry at the edges of Greenwood, Gundabad was captured and held after by the Orcs, for a time comunication between Moria and Ered Engrin was cut off. Ever after Gundabad remind the capital of the Orcs in the Misty Mountians. In 2793 third Age Gundabad was the first Orc-city that the Dwarves attacked and cleaned, but they did not hold it. So later the Orcs creapted back in. Respectfully Findegil |
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#11 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thank you for the post, Findegil. It is very informative. I only wish you have added references to the sources, to make your info really useful.
Regards, CS |
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#12 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany
Posts: 192
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For the info in the first two paragraphs the source is "Of Men and Dwarves" in "The history of Middle-Earth"; volume 12: "The People of Middle-Earth".
The rest is a short hand conclusion from Appendix A III of "The Lord of the Rings". Respectfully Findegil |
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