Saddam Hussein: US Show Trial?

Radagast · 07-01-2004, 01:03 PM

Defence lawyers for Saddam Hussein are saying they are being denied access to their client and claim that the judge and the court have no validity and thus are illegal. I think it is impossible for Saddam to recieve a fair trial in Iraq: how can the Iraqis be victims and at the same time jurors?

Insidious Rex · 07-01-2004, 01:45 PM

Thats how its supposed to work. If a person commits a crime against the "state" in england (spying, fraud, theft of state owned goods, etc.) arent they to be tried by a jury composed of residents of that state?

***Valandil*** · 07-01-2004, 01:49 PM

This is all sort of an unusual thing. Saddam Hussein was head-of-state and absolute ruler - so it's not quite right that he was breaking laws of Iraq... since he was THE law in Iraq.

However, to claim that this court and the procedings have no legitimacy would be to claim the same thing about the Nazi War Crimes Tribunals held at Nuremburg following WW2. Even though Saddam Hussein did not break any of his own laws, he should stand trial for his actions by all that is right.

Then the questions to address begin with: 'by whom should he BE tried?' and 'by what standard?'...

brownjenkins · 07-01-2004, 02:09 PM

i don't think he can ever receive a 'fair' trial, the nature of his crimes make it impossible... but i prefer a more international kind of trial, like the one milosivich is under... to one that is solely controlled by iraq

either way though... i don't think his guilt is in question... what i find more interesting is who his 'partners in crime' might be... many countries, including the US, France, the former Soviet Union, etc., have had ties/relations with saddam in the past... i wonder how much may come out that we do not already know

Janny · 07-01-2004, 05:18 PM

The thing that struck me most was the discussion of the death penalty. Of course in the USA and the Arab world this is standard, but you forget this when you live in the UK.

The Gaffer · 07-02-2004, 04:12 AM

One point I've seen raised is that his crimes were "crimes against humanity" and therefore an international court would be appropriate. While they were held in Germany, the Nuremberg were international.

I would have thought that it would be harder for him to utilise the "I was president, so whateverI did was legal at the time" defence in an international court.

On the other hand, there is definitely something symbolic and important about him being tried by Iraqis.

It's interesting that his attack on Iran was left off the charge sheet. I wonder why?

brownjenkins · 07-02-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gaffer
It's interesting that his attack on Iran was left off the charge sheet. I wonder why?

maybe because of certain assistance he received

07-01-2004, 01:03 PM	#1
Radagast Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Merry old England Posts: 413	Saddam Hussein: US Show Trial? Defence lawyers for Saddam Hussein are saying they are being denied access to their client and claim that the judge and the court have no validity and thus are illegal. I think it is impossible for Saddam to recieve a fair trial in Iraq: how can the Iraqis be victims and at the same time jurors? __________________ Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought.

07-01-2004, 01:45 PM	#2
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Thats how its supposed to work. If a person commits a crime against the "state" in england (spying, fraud, theft of state owned goods, etc.) arent they to be tried by a jury composed of residents of that state? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

07-01-2004, 01:49 PM	#3
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	This is all sort of an unusual thing. Saddam Hussein was head-of-state and absolute ruler - so it's not quite right that he was breaking laws of Iraq... since he was THE law in Iraq. However, to claim that this court and the procedings have no legitimacy would be to claim the same thing about the Nazi War Crimes Tribunals held at Nuremburg following WW2. Even though Saddam Hussein did not break any of his own laws, he should stand trial for his actions by all that is right. Then the questions to address begin with: 'by whom should he BE tried?' and 'by what standard?'... __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

07-01-2004, 02:09 PM	#4
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	i don't think he can ever receive a 'fair' trial, the nature of his crimes make it impossible... but i prefer a more international kind of trial, like the one milosivich is under... to one that is solely controlled by iraq either way though... i don't think his guilt is in question... what i find more interesting is who his 'partners in crime' might be... many countries, including the US, France, the former Soviet Union, etc., have had ties/relations with saddam in the past... i wonder how much may come out that we do not already know __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

07-01-2004, 05:18 PM	#5
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	The thing that struck me most was the discussion of the death penalty. Of course in the USA and the Arab world this is standard, but you forget this when you live in the UK. __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

07-02-2004, 04:12 AM	#6
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	One point I've seen raised is that his crimes were "crimes against humanity" and therefore an international court would be appropriate. While they were held in Germany, the Nuremberg were international. I would have thought that it would be harder for him to utilise the "I was president, so whateverI did was legal at the time" defence in an international court. On the other hand, there is definitely something symbolic and important about him being tried by Iraqis. It's interesting that his attack on Iran was left off the charge sheet. I wonder why?

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