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Old 04-19-2007, 11:31 PM   #1
Olmer
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Queen Beruthiel, or what to do with "loveless" wife.

In his letters Tolkien has been mentioning that any character in his writing has some story. Unfortunately, he was not too diligent on giving some information about the fabled wife of the King Tarannon.
From pieces and bits we could form some very vague picture.
Margoliante (Tamar) Beruthiel was the the nefarious, solitary, and loveless wife of the twelfth King of Gondor.She has been of Black Numenorians blood, originally, probably, from Umbar. She did not like the sea, so, did not share her husband's passion, prefering to live far inland in Osgiliath, leading a very modest life style, keeping cats for a company. Seems, her husband was not too much interested in her, they did not have any children. For Gondorians taste she was too strange, and they were making the odd tales about her and her cats. That it.
How, the question: what did she do so awful, that "her name was erased from the Book of the Kings", and she has been put on the ship without crew and sent "afloat" into the ocean?
Why it was a such unusual way to get rid of your old lady?
Any speculations?
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:25 PM   #2
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Adultery? For the wife of a king, this is often looked at as treason. It seems the easiest answer.
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:01 AM   #3
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Adultery is possible, but there are several other possibilities:

1. They just did NOT get along, and he sent her off to assert himself and his authority as King and Husband.

2. It was political provocation - he wanted to "start things up" again with Umbar and the other southern Numenorean realms.

3. As Alcuin has previously suggested - having had his fill, it represents a rejection by Tarannon Falastur, and/or all Gondor, of the Black Arts.

4. She had not presented King Tarannon with an heir - male or otherwise, for he was the first king of Gondor to die childless. It may even be that she refused to "cooperate" in the formulation of an heir.

I've always felt (not that this is sound reasoning) that there was a link between Tarannon being the first childless King and his sending off of Beruthiel. However - this "send-off" happened late in his reign - long, long, LONG after most Gondorian Kings would have produced an heir. I think he married her very late - after he already had nephews and maybe even great-nephews. He may have been too old to produce an heir - or, maybe more likely, too old to charm Beruthiel into making the attempt.

According to "The Peoples of Middle Earth", Tarannon was born in 654 and came to the throne of Gondor in 830 (age 176), living until 913 (age 259). When he came to the throne, he took the name "Falastur" ("Lord of Coasts") "to commemorate his victories that extended the sway of Gondor far along the shore-lands on either side of the mouths of Anduin."

From that, it sounds like he was leading the navies of Gondor up and down the coasts while his father, Siriondil, was King. It seems likely then, that while going "down" the coasts, he met Beruthiel - maybe she caught his eye when her father or grandfather surrendered to him, and he married her, as part of the terms of surrender, or treaty - instead of marrying a nice Gondorian girl from back home. But if this came late in his exploits - he might have been between 150 and 170 year old - while most Gondorian Kings at this time had their heir at around age 80 to 90.

Beruthiel may have been "loveless" because she was married to an old man. And - if Gondor began to dabble in the Black Arts at all in those years of contact with the southern realms, she could have been a practitioner of the Black Arts - and maybe it was OK for awhile. But if Gondor - or Tarannon - decided to reject those Arts, she was jettisoned. Or else, Gondor had never even dabbled in them, maybe the rest of the kingdom didn't like that she was the one whom Tarannon had married - and painting her as a practitioner of the Black Arts was a convenient way to get her out of town.

I'm sure you have some ideas Olmer - what do you think?
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:39 AM   #4
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Interesting how you can build up the whole picture using just pieces and bits.
I have never thought about the math part on Falastur's account. Brilliant! It explains some things, but still leaves out some questions.
The King realized that he could not make a heir, left the "loveless" Queen alone, but also all blame for such fiasco has been put on a woman. Also this fact explains why he did not get remarried.
All her incriminating wrongdoings are sounding false from the beginning to the end, because if she would be who they were saying she was, she would "slam the door" upon her leaving with such force, that the whole Gondor would be talking about her for a long-long time. Instead - just memories of cats...and discrediting description of her.

I am sure that Beruthiel was of a very noble blood. At that time descendants of mighty and long-living Numenorians were scrupulously preserving their genetic fund, so she could be from the top of Umbar's aristocracy.
But Umbar has never been friendly with Gondor. What pocessed Tarannon to look for a wife from such hostile area? A political motives? Then why he is getting rid of her? She would be better staying in Gondor as a reassurance against Umbar's ally with Harad.
If she was who they say she was - a traitor, a cheater, and a witch, then she should be executed (as it had been done in a real medieval time), and not just be sent away: she is too dangerous to let her roam free.

Why her accusations are looking so made up? What made the Queen to leave Osgiliath and take a long trip to a detestable Pelargir and board the ship to sail in the hateful sea?
So far I do have more questions than ideas.

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Old 04-26-2007, 11:51 AM   #5
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Have you read the interview given by Tolkien in 1966?
http://www.fantasticmetropolis.com/i/tolkien/3/


There is a part about Beruthiel that answers some questions:


"There’s one exception that puzzles me—Beruthiel. I really don’t know anything of her—you remember Aragorn’s allusion in Book I to the cats of Queen Beruthiel, that could find their way home on a blind night? She just popped up, and obviously called for attention, but I don’t really know anything certain about her; though, oddly enough, I have a notion that she was the wife of one of the ship-kings of Pelargir. She loathed the smell of the sea, and fish, and the gulls. Rather like Skadi, the giantess, who came to the gods in Valhalla, demanding a recompense for the accidental death of her father. She wanted a husband. The gods all lined up behind a curtain, and she selected the pair of feet that appealed to her most. She thought she’d got Baldur, the beautiful god, but it turned out to be Njord, the sea-god, and after she’d married him, she got absolutely fed up with the seaside life, and the gulls kept her awake, and finally she went back to live in Jotunheim.

"Well, Beruthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it—she was a black Numenorean in origin, I guess). She was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about—you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I have a friend like that. I’m afraid she took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them—trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them."

I should very much have liked to hear more about Queen Beruthiel, who sent a pleasant grue down my spine-it is not often you have the chance to listen to an entirely new story from your favourite storyteller.

But, as Professor Tolkien had said, he did not really know much more to tell me."

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Old 05-22-2007, 09:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
:
:
I have never thought about the math part on Falastur's account. Brilliant! It explains some things, but still leaves out some questions.
:
:
I am sure that Beruthiel was of a very noble blood. At that time descendants of mighty and long-living Numenorians were scrupulously preserving their genetic fond, so she could be from the top of Umbar's aristocracy.
But Umbar has never been friendly with Gondor. What pocessed Tarannon to look for a wife from such hostile area? A political motives? Then why he is getting rid of her? She would be better staying in Gondor as a reassurance against Umbar's ally with Harad.
:
:
1. You should always do the math... ALWAYS!

2. Umbar at the time Tarannon Falastur married Beruthiel may have been under the rule of Gondor. Remember that he took the title "Falastur" (Lord of Coasts) on coming to the throne, because he had already increased Gondor's control both up and down the coasts from the Anduin... probably including Umbar. So, for this time, Umbar was probably a client state or a subject state. The marriage may have been part of the terms of the peace treaty.
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
2. Umbar at the time Tarannon Falastur married Beruthiel may have been under the rule of Gondor.
No, up to 933 Umbar has been an autonomous. Falastur was adding shore lands to Gondor's dominion, but for some reason he was not bothering Umbar. However his successor Earnil did not wait for long to seize the Black Numenorian's stronghold and proclaim it as the fortress of Gondor.

Gordis,I was not aware of this piece in the interview, thank you for additional quotes. I knew that I can always count on you for a helpful information.

Well. As Professor was saying, he has had the feeling that things, which were popping up in his mind, are "actually EXIST on its own plane (of secondary or sub-creational reality)" So, if he puts Beruthiel's story in such unorthodox manner, then subconsciously he has had some particular thoughts about her.
So, it should be more realistic explanation of the whole bizzare scenario of Beruthiel's comedown. I'm still working on some ideas.

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Old 05-22-2007, 11:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
No, up to 933 Umbar has been an autonomous. Falastur was adding shore lands to Gondor's dominion, but for some reason he was not bothering Umbar. However his successor Earnil did not wait for long to seize the Black Numenorian's stronghold and proclaim it as the fortress of Gondor.
:
:
:
I tend to disagree. I think that Tarannon brought Umbar under Gondor's sway - if it had not been there already. But after Tarannon sent Beruthiel away as he did, I think they rebelled... and Earnil I went on down to straighten things out.

It's probably speculation either way...
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Old 05-23-2007, 04:33 AM   #9
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I think, Olmer and Val, that you are missing 2 important points.

Firstly, Beruthiel was NOT from Umbar - as is clear from the interview. She was from an unnamed inland city that might or might not have been dependant from Umbar. I even think her home city was far away from the coast - as gulls and the smell of the Sea were loathsome to her and she associated them uniquely with the hated Gondor and not with her homeland.

Secondly, Beruthiel must have been of very noble blood. When 500 years later Valacar married Vidumavi it was a scandal and it is clear that no such "lowly" marriage ever happened before.
I somehow tend to think of Beruthiel as a descendant of Herumor or Fuinur, maybe the last of this line. I guess there was a family of Numenorean Royal blood (not from the line of Andunie) in the South beyond Umbar that survived the Downfall. Herumor and Fuinur ( "lords both mighty and evil") most likely opposed Elendil and Sons on the grounds that they were closer to the extinguished MAIN line of the Kings of Numenor and therefore had MORE rights to become Numenorean kings in exile. And note: all the King's men followed them, including Umbarians. For 1000 years Umbar was opposed to Gondor, its ships prowling at the costs.

I guess, Tarannon's father, Siriondil, who was not a Ship-King, but most likely a shrewd politician, tried to settle the matter with Umbarians peacefully. He must have ARRANGED the marriage of his only son with the last remaining daughter of the concurrent line. (Unlike Val, I think there is no reason to suppose that Tarannon married LATE in life.) Likely Tarannon and Beruthiel never met before the marriage arrangement took place - the match was purely political and ended in a disaster.

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Old 05-23-2007, 06:52 AM   #10
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Gordis - the "inland city" mentioned there refers to Osgiliath... where Beruthiel went to live instead of Pelargir - the coastal city. Whether she is originally from Umbar or some other southern Numenorean colony is left open. Umbar is convenient to suppose mainly because it is known, while the rest are not.

Also... see what happens between Gondor and Umbar after Falastur ships Beruthiel off. A good indication that she might be from there, I would think.

As for the rest, you're conjecturing as much as Olmer and I are. Only maybe more.

In the first 100+ years from the Fall of Numenor, it's hard to imagine the remnants of the "King's Men" on Middle-earth having much credibility. I think it's more likely they submitted to Elendil's rule for the time being at least... out of shear awe from what had happened to the island. Besides - as I've pointed out before, nothing indicates that Gondor was under attack from any direction besides Mordor at the end of the Second Age.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
Gordis - the "inland city" mentioned there refers to Osgiliath... where Beruthiel went to live instead of Pelargir - the coastal city. Whether she is originally from Umbar or some other southern Numenorean colony is left open. Umbar is convenient to suppose mainly because it is known, while the rest are not.
I have re-read the quote and you must be right that the inland city refers to Osgiliath. But I still don't believe that Beruthiel was from Umbar. It is told nowhere. And could a lass from a big port hate the Sea? Doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
Also... see what happens between Gondor and Umbar after Falastur ships Beruthiel off. A good indication that she might be from there, I would think.
A good indication that she was from Black Numenoreans of the South - one of their noblest. Sure, even were she from a far-away city in Harad, all Umbarian Numenoreans would feel offended by her treatment and Tarannon would feel angry towards all the Black Numenoreans, including the Umbarians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
As for the rest, you're conjecturing as much as Olmer and I are. Only maybe more.
Of course. But the question is whose conjecture is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
In the first 100+ years from the Fall of Numenor, it's hard to imagine the remnants of the "King's Men" on Middle-earth having much credibility. I think it's more likely they submitted to Elendil's rule for the time being at least... out of shear awe from what had happened to the island. .
What do you mean by "credibility"? I am sure they didn't submit to Elendil, the son of Amandil "the traitor". I think the Black Numenoreans were mostly angry and fearful of the Avalai (Valar, Maiar and Elves), and angry at Eru - so they continued worshipping Morgoth and turned to Mordor for alliance from the start.

Quote:
Now Sauron prepared war against the Eldar and the Men of Westernesse, and the fires of the Mountain were wakened again. ...And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south; and among them were not a few of the high race of Númenor. For in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin.-OF THE RINGS OF POWER AND THE THIRD AGE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valandil
Besides - as I've pointed out before, nothing indicates that Gondor was under attack from any direction besides Mordor at the end of the Second Age.
At first Gondor was not under attack - even from Mordor. The Black Numenoreans left in ME were quite few - they started by raising to power in Harad to get enough followers to deal with Gondor later and they allied themselves with Mordor. I don't know who was in charge there, while Sauron was hiding and taking shape - the Witch-King, most likely.

I don't know why you think that Umbar submitted to Gondor when Isildur and Anarion established it. Here is a quote where all strongholds of Gondor are listed - there is NO Umbar:

Quote:
Isildur and Anárion were borne away southwards, and at the last they brought their ships up the Great River Anduin, that flows out of Rhovanion into the western sea in the Bay of Belfalas; and they established a realm in those lands that were after called Gondor, whereas the Northern Kingdom was named Arnor. Long before in the days of their power the mariners of Númenor had established a haven and strong places about the mouths of Anduin, in despite of Sauron in the Black Land that lay nigh upon the east. In the later days to this haven came only the Faithful of Númenor, and many therefore of the folk of the coastlands in that region were in whole or in part akin to the Elf-friends and the people of Elendil, and they welcomed his sons. The chief city of this southern realm was Osgiliath, through the midst of which the Great River flowed; and the Númenóreans built there a great bridge, upon which there were towers and houses of stone wonderful to behold, and tall ships came up out of the sea to the quays of the city. Other strong places they built also upon either hand: Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Rising Moon, eastward upon a shoulder of the Mountains of Shadow as a threat to Mordor; and to the westward Minas Anor, the Tower of the Setting Sun, at the feet of Mount Mindolluin, as a shield against the wild men of the dales. In Minas Ithil was the house of Isildur, and in Minas Anor the house of Anárion, but they shared the realm between them and their thrones were set side by side in the Great Hall of Osgiliath. These were the chief dwellings of the Númenóreans in Gondor, but other works marvellous and strong they built in the land in the days of their power, at the Argonath, and at Aglarond, and at Erech; and in the circle of Angrenost, which Men called Isengard, they made the Pinnacle of Orthanc of unbreakable stone. OF THE RINGS OF POWER AND THE THIRD AGE

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Old 05-24-2007, 07:19 AM   #12
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Gordis - I'm not saying that Umbar was a PART of Gondor... but it seems plausible to me that, for a time at least, they may have warmed up a bit to the Faithful Exiles under Elendil.

After all, Numenor was sunk due to their King's rash attempt to take the land of the Valar. Here are Elendil and his sons who SURVIVED that turmoil which overthrew Numenor. And Sauron... well, HE was the one who GAVE the King that idea which led to his fall (and for all appearances for awhile, Sauron was destroyed by the Downfall).

I tend to think that even if they had major misgivings, they about had to acknowledge that Elendil was "the man".

A couple other ideas I have that shape this view of mine though:

1. It's hard to imagine a fairly static relationship between Gondor and Umbar (and other southern Numenorean states) for over 3000 years - punctuated only by the period when Gondor held Umbar, between when Earnil I took it (933 Third Age - followed by Hyarmendacil's capture of the surrounding area in 1050), and when the heirs of Castamir fled there (1447 Third Age). It seems more likely to me that those in southern states would have been inclined - or at least open - to influence and ties with Gondor (and Arnor); both in the initial years after Numenor's Fall, and again 122 years later when Sauron fell at the end of the War of the Last Alliance and the Second Age - the two times when it seemed like Sauron had been destroyed.

2. Just the nature of people - and the long-term relationships groups of people seem to have with competing ideas (ie, good and evil): there's a pendulum flow of some sort.

So - probably like anyone else, I'm a bit captive to my own conceptions in attempting to extrapolate beyond what JRRT explicitly tells us. But I think those two ideas above (maybe three - the first could be split) are at least somewhat sound.
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:38 PM   #13
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This has been very interesting reading, kudos to all involved. I was unaware of the interview, so thanks for that.
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Old 06-09-2007, 02:30 AM   #14
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I think, if I remember aright, that Umbar was the largest and most important and northernmost of the Númenórean settlements of the Kings’ Men in Middle-earth during the Second Age. The settlements of the Faithful in what later became Gondor and Arnor were smaller, and they were situated along the northern coasts of Middle-earth so that the Faithful might be closer to the Eldar who remained. The strong implication is that the greater number of the Númenóreans in Middle-earth at the beginning of the Third Age were Black Númenóreans. Doubtless their ranks were thinned in the Akallabêth and the war between Sauron and the Last Alliance, and Tolkien states that they were rapidly absorbed into the general population (of non-Númenóreans), but doubtless some remained of more or less pure blood for several centuries.

We are told that the majority of the Númenórean settlements in Middle-earth in the Second Age were south of Umbar, and that those of the Faithful, though they grew as exiles arrived from Anadûnê as the age drew to its tragic close, were the minority of Númenóreans in Middle-earth. At the beginning of the Second Age, the Black Númenóreans, whose settlements predominated the western coast of Middle-earth, must still have outnumbered the Faithful.

I believe the marriage of Tarannon Falastur and Berúthiel was an attempt by Tarannon to unite all Númenóreans in Middle-earth under one recognized and undisputed king. Gordis has suggested (albeit in another forum) that there were probably still surviving members of the House of Elros in Middle-earth during the Third Age, and these would by law and custom have had the stronger claim to the ancient throne than the House of Elendil (i.e., the Lords of Andúnië). The implication is that the union of Tarannon and Berúthiel would reunite the House of Elros with the (senior) House of Valandil of Andúnië, providing the Númenóreans, whether of the Faithful in the north or the Black Númenóreans along the rest of the coastlands of Belegaer, with one undisputed ruler as of old. In this union, it is important that Berúthiel represents the distaff line, which is the one with the greater claim, but Tarannon the line that of the new kings: this motif is repeated in Beren and Lúthien, in Tuor and Idril, in the failed union of Turin and Finduilas, and in Aragorn and Arwen. The union of the two ancient houses, of the heirs of Silmariën and her brother Tar-Meneldur, younger than she but inheritor of the throne under the ancient law of the Third House that his son would set aside so that his own daughter might reign as Ruling Queen, would strengthen the Númenóreans, whose numbers in Middle-earth were always fewer than the folk about them, so that they might have the greater chance to thrive and again grow great and strong and powerful though forever in exile.

But Berúthiel was a practitioner of evil: she was a worshipper of the Dark, and the twisted sculpture Tolkien described her garden in the interview with his former student reflected the twisted nature of the princess of the Black Númenóreans. The marriage, no doubt, had been consummated; but as Tarannon discovered more and more about the degradations of his queen, he withdrew from her, or so I read the implications. (Perhaps the notorious cats began as a means for Berúthiel to spy upon her husband? Suspicion between spouses in such circumstances is well-attested.) Remember Faramir’s words to Frodo in Two Towers (and I paraphrase), that it was not said that the black arts were ever practiced in Gondor – except, we might note, by Berúthiel, whose name was struck from the royal ledger so that it was recalled (by the heir of the other kingdom – one whose forebears might have an ax to grind and so remember the better) only as a byword, and then only in reference to her cats.

I suspect that Tarannon Falastur’s rejection of Berúthiel and her ignominious return home were the proximate, immediate causes for war between the Gondor and the southern Black Númenórean settlements. I do not believe she was any minor princess, but that all indications point that she was the heiress and representative of last of the House of Elros in Middle-earth, fallen into dire depravity, and so judged by Tarannon, a wise and far-sighted Dúnadan, unfit to deliver any heir of his to misrule over the Faithful.

Berúthiel then represents the last, lost, opportunity for reunification of all the Númenóreans. That hope failed because she by choice and by upbringing fell short what was required: she was insulted, her folk offended, and war commenced to the detriment of the Númenóreans. Berúthiel is in direct contrast to Arwen, who is greater than the role set before her, who rules in honor and bliss, her folk diminished, withdrawn, but at peace with the Dúnedain. If Arwen is the last of the line of the Elven-kings in Middle-earth but from who spring the kings of the Númenóreans renewed at the beginning of the Fourth Age, then Berúthiel should represent the last of her line of the House of Elros, which should fall without an heir to sustain it.
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:21 AM   #15
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Hmmm... the Greeks all gathered and went to war with Troy over a queen whose husband/captor sailed her back to Troy.

The Black Numenoreans gathered and went to war with Gondor over a queen whose husband sent her sailing back from Gondor in their general direction.

Just the twist of ancient tales we might expect.

If Alcuin is right, it really illustrates how much the Black Numenoreans felt they had to lose over the dissolution of the marriage. Gondor was clearly the ascendant power - at the very least.

I still wonder about the timing and the relative ages - it's hard for me to imagine that they were married for 150 or more years before Tarannon sent her sailing - which is about the only scenario where Tarannon marries her at the same age his forefathers married their wives.
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Old 06-09-2007, 02:50 PM   #16
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Wow, Alcuin is back! *waves*

Brilliant analysis and I agree with you. Only it doesn't seem that it was Tarannon who initiated the separation, but Beruthiel herself - she left Pelargir and went to live alone in Osgiliath. Thus it seems she is the one to blame for their childlessness - at first, at least. Clearly she disliked Tarannon almost from the start, even before he learned to hate her.

Also, although at the end of the SA the Black Numenoreans must have indeed outnumbered the Faithful, likely it was not so after the fall of Barad-Dur. The life-span of Black ones likely has become shorter than in Gondor. Black arts and dark knowledge were not good for reproduction - remember Faramir's words
Quote:
"Death was ever present, because the Númenoreans still, as they had in their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. "
I agree with you that Beruthiel was likely the last one of the line of Elros, apart from the descendants of Elendil, left in ME. Probably in all the South there was no man noble enough to be eligible for her.

Also Beruthiel's relatives might have had additional reasons to desire union with Gondor. One would be to acquire the longer life-span for their descendants.
Another one was to put upon the throne of Gondor Beruthiel's son - a man with the blood of the Kings of Numenor in him and the one brought up by a mother who was Morgoth worshipper - and thus tolerant to this religion, and maybe an adept of it.
Tarannon-Beruthiel's match reminds me of Gimilzor-Inzilbeth one, back in Numenor. Why would the Faithful give one of their own to Gimilzor - who was so opposed to them? Most likely they hoped that Inzilbeth's son - the next King - would take their side, if brought up by the Faithful mother. And their goal was achieved - Tar-Palantir, indeed, repented and returned his favour to the Faithful.
I think the Black Numenoreans had the same agenda when they gave Beruthiel to Tarannon.But... they failed.


Val, as to the timing. Tarannon seems to me similar to Aldarion the Mariner, to Earnur and Boromir. This type likes war, sea and adventure and marries late, if at all. Perhaps Tarannon married at around 120-140 -still a man in his prime, as he lived to over 250 - and he "divorced" after about 50 years of marriage, at 180-190, when he was already King. I guess, he probably sent Beruthiel home right after he had become King - before that his father may have prevented the quarrel with Umbar and the South.

Another thing. Do you think that Beruthiel returned home safely? For me it was always a tale of MURDER. Because what chances has a single woman, without any knowlegde of the sea sent adrift in a stormy ocean, with only her cats for companions?
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:19 PM   #17
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Gordis, bless you and thank you! But I’m really not here – just a pigment of your imagination.

If the claimants of the House of Elros still existed south (and inland) of Umbar, and Berúthiel “the Beautiful but Unlovable” was their princess, I can think of several practical, diplomatic, and dynastic reasons why her adherents would want a union between Berúthiel and Tarannon.
  • It is likely that the nobles of the Black Númenóreans were rapidly being absorbed into the local population. It was already the situation in Númenor that the formerly extraordinarily long lives of the House of Elros (what Aldarion blamed for his marital differences with Erendis) had diminished until they were nearly the same as the common folk of Númenor, the length of whose lives had also diminished. (It was in a vain and misguided attempt to maintain their longer lives that the House of Elros enforced Aldarion’s law that the Kings could marry only another member of the House of Elros.) As Gordis suggests, they had likely further diminished in Middle-earth, just as the lifespans of the Elendili had diminished. They required an infusion of new blood: there must have been fewer and fewer Black Númenóreans of pure blood, and the Elendili were unquestionably pure-blooded Númenóreans.
  • The Gondorians were sailing south along the coast. They probably held considerable sway in Umbar, the only other rival center of power mentioned in the story, and as such represented a serious threat to the descendents of the King’s Men ruling the various states. Consider this, for instance: who ruled Umbar before Gondor conquered it? It was almost certainly a noble family of some Númenórean extraction. (Some of the other states must have had non-Númenórean rules by the ninth century of the Third Age; presumably Berúthiel’s “inland city” was not one of them.) The marriage was a diplomatic one for Tarannon, who took the name “Falastur” or “Lord of the Coasts”; it must have been something of a coup for Berúthiel’s family: she was married to the most powerful ruler in the West of Middle-earth!
  • It meant that the state from which Berúthiel hailed would become the most influential in the region, if it were not already; since Berúthiel’s family was there, it might already have been prestigious.
  • It meant that wealth would likely flow to the rest of her family, directly or indirectly.

Longer lifespans were certainly important, too, and especially their hope that any heir of the union of Tarannon and Berúthiel would likely be a practitioner or at least tolerant of Morgoth-worship. I do agree that remembering that Tar-Palant*r ruled after the union of Inzilbêth and Ar-Gimilzôr would be in their thinking. It is often true that children follow their mothers, not their fathers, in matters of faith and language: this is how Anglo-Saxon survived for over three hundred years until Richard II took his coronation oath in English rather than in French; likewise, Russians chroniclers report that after three or four generations, Slavic survived as the sole language of the ruling nobles of the Kievan state, though Rus and his Varangians apparently spoke a dialect of one of the Scandinavian languages. In the case of Ar-Gimilzôr and Inzilbêth, Inzilbêth neither wanted to marry Gimilzôr, nor did she love him ir even like him; their loveless marriage was reflected in the relationship of their sons, as well as the much-too-close marriage of their grandchildren.

I suspect that Tarannon married later in his life than usual: for one thing, Berúthiel’s kinsfolk probably had shorter lifespans, so marrying later would avoid any of the problems presumably associated with the failure of the marriage of Aldarion and Erendis.

It is also very likely that Gondor and whatever state Berúthiel represented were already close to conflict: the marriage would then be a diplomatic and dynastic solution to the advantages of both sides, besides ending forever the question of who was rightful “High King.” This might have been as important for Tarannon as for the Black Númenóreans: when he became king, Eärendur of Annúminas was king in Arnor, and so technically, he still had claim to be “High King” over both Arnor and Gondor. (The breakup of Arnor might have been in part encouraged by Gondor to terminate this claim; it can hardly be imagined that the Royal Council of Gondor mourned the demise of the unity of the northern Dúnedain kingdom.)

Tarannon’s divorce of Berúthiel would have ended any truces and treaties that accompanied the marriage: a state of war is implied in this act: “We’re terminating our treaty and alliance. By the way, here’s your princess back. Thanks. It was fun.” These governments are personal governments of the kind that have existed all over the world from the beginning of recorded history. You can not send a royal princess home in disgrace without war. In that sense, it is a way of turning Iliad on its head, as Valandil has observed.

Gondor had a difficult time with the Black Númenórean kingdoms. There were four ship-kings: Falastur, Eärnil I, Ciryandil, and Hyarmendacil I. Eärnil, Tarannon Falastur’s nephew, died in a storm off the coast of Umbar (hm… I wonder if the Nazgûl could influence the weather off Umbar?), and Ciryandil died fighting in Harad. Since Hyarmendacil’s son Atanatar II Alcarin, or “Atanatar the Glorious,” felt secure enough to sit around and basically waste time, it would appear that Hyarmendacil must have essentially concluded the conquest of most of the Black Númenórean states to the south. (Or else the lazy Atanatar left it undone.) By eliminating the rulers in those places without maintaining control over them, Gondor ensured the permanent enmity of the remaining Black Númenórean and near-Númenórean populations in those places; it precluded the possibility of another, successful marriage between the Elendili and a representative of the House of Elros, even if any of them survived; and it eliminated the people most likely to negotiate trade and diplomatic solutions with Gondor.

The failure of the marriage of Tarannon and Berúthiel must have had a lot of long-lasting results. You can imagine why Tarannon probably spent the rest of his life saying, “Don’t even mention her name!” and threatening those who did not comply with something unpleasant (but not fatal – it was Gondor, after all). The rest of the Dúnedain of Gondor weren’t stupid, either: as Berúthiel’s nefarious reputation was followed by the outbreak of war after her dismissal, her memory must have been particularly odious.

It gives a whole new sense to the phrase, “She sure has a catty personality.”

Last edited by Alcuin : 06-09-2007 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcuin
the marriage would then be a diplomatic and dynastic solution to the advantages of both sides, besides ending forever the question of who was rightful “High King.” This might have been as important for Tarannon as for the Black Númenóreans: when he became king, Eärendur of Annúminas was king in Arnor, and so technically, he still had claim to be “High King” over both Arnor and Gondor. (The breakup of Arnor might have been in part encouraged by Gondor to terminate this claim; it can hardly be imagined that the Royal Council of Gondor mourned the demise of the unity of the northern Dúnedain kingdom.)
Indeed, the division of Arnor happened in Tarannon's reign and likely he had a hand in it. I remember Val suggested it as well.

Tarannon was likely a power-greedy, arrogant man - even his name "King of the West" is in fact rightfully Manwe's own title. It is as bad as Ar-Adunakhor's - whose name was considered blasphemous by the Faithful. Such a man would not stop at anything to gain more power - he had accepted a Black Numenorean bride and he would do everything to become High King of all Numenoreans, instead of Earendur of diminished Arnor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcuin
Eärnil, Tarannon Falastur’s nephew, died in a storm off the coast of Umbar (hm… I wonder if the Nazgûl could influence the weather off Umbar?)
I don't know about other nazgul, but the Witch-King certainly could - if he was around at this time. And perhaps he was - he had to be somewhere, before he setled in Angmar. Southern Numenorean Kingdoms would have been a likely place. Maybe it was his scheme with Beruthiel -a clever way to bring Gondor to her knees without open war - who knows?
And when Beruthiel failed so miserably in her mission - couldn't produce a Black Numenorean heir and discredited herself so totally as to be send back in disgrace - the angry WK drowned her in his wrath in a storm...

But it seems my imagination carries me too far. After all, there should have been natural storms, not only WK-made ones. Perhaps the nazgul had never made a storm in his life, it were Lossoth beliefs that made him responsible for the drowning of Arvedui.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:55 PM   #19
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A live Berúthiel back home at her inland city complaining about her ill treatment, the injustice of her plight, and how hard she worked to please and assist her royal husband despite his mistreatment of her and his disparagement of her Black Númenórean culture, would be a far more effective means of revenge than death. She was unlikely to have been alone beyond Umbar unless she either knew the way or had some other means ensuring that she arrived home. In any case, it is unlikely that Tarannon deliberately set about to kill her: she could easily have demanded that he permit her to leave by land. No doubt their parting was private: it would not do for the King of Gondor to publicly dismiss his bride, who had probably entered Gondor with splendor, pomp, and ceremony. She was then free to tell whatever she liked when she returned home, a tale likely to return to Gondor in due course, as there might well have been traders and seafarers from Gondor in the port at which she finally arrived and first told her tale. That way, a decent act on the part of Tarannon – seeking to spare her public humiliation in Gondor – would work to his disadvantage.

My guess is that in the war that followed, the line of the House of Elros came to an end in Middle-earth.

So back to Olmer’s original question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
…what did she do so awful, that "her name was erased from the Book of the Kings", and she has been put on the ship without crew and sent "afloat" into the ocean?
  • She worshipped Morgoth, or at least she was a practitioner of one or more of the Sauronian religious cults of the Black Númenóreans.
  • Using her cats, she spied on the folk of Gondor. There was little need to spy on the common folk (except to induce them to commit some evil act): she probably spied on her husband and his friends, relatives, and advisors. What she did with the information she gleaned is not reported, but it seems to have been put to nefarious purpose.
  • She refused to live with Tarannon. It is unlikely that the marriage was on the rocks from the start, since Tarannon may well have devised the idea himself; in any case, he could hardly have been opposed to it.
  • She produced no heir. We have all assumed that this was because Tarannon was intentionally estranged from her; however, suppose that Berúthiel was in a cult similar to that of the Baal worshippers of ancient times. They sacrificed their first-born children to Baal by rolling them live across the outstretched hands and arms of a bronze idol of the god into a fire in its belly: from the moment the infant touched the bronze hands that received it, it was in excruciating pain from the red-hot bronze. That would certainly have crossed the line for Tarannon and the Dúnedain of Gondor, and gotten her booted out of the country post-haste. (Be aware that there is absolutely no evidence for such an act in Tolkien’s writing, as far as I know; but he was certainly aware of the Baal cult from Biblical and from Roman sources (the Romans were almost as horrified by the practice as the writers of the Old Testament), and he did write that Sauron and his cultists in Númenor practiced human sacrifice.)
It almost goes without saying that Berúthiel was probably proud and haughty. If she were among the last of the ruling house of Númenor, coming from a Black Númenórean city, she would likely have thought herself better than the House of Anárion (he was merely a descendent of the Lords of Andúnië, not the Royal House, and so a pretender in Middle-earth), and she probably saw her culture, art, and language and literature as superior to that of Gondor. In short, were she as arrogant as I propose, she was probably unpopular among the people, Tarannon probably found her difficult to tolerate, and his court must have thought her insufferable.

But through her notorious cats and her unscrupulous use of the information they brought her, we may safely conclude she made herself an object of fear and loathing throughout Gondor, so much so that although her name was struck from the Royal lineages, it still became a byword in Middle-earth.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:14 PM   #20
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Cats were long persecuted in Europe, often in connection with the persecution or females. I'm sad to see the connection continued in the Beruthiel story. It is quite possible that the Black Plague was a direct result of Europe's deliberate yet mindless destruction of the foremost mousers on the continent. Fortunately, there does not appear to be evidence in the LOTR cannon that the negative associations of cats with Beruthiel led to their wholesale persecution in ME (at least I hope not).
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