Plastic Surgery

[jerseydevil]

I thought people might be interested in 20/20 that will be on tomorrow August 23, 2002 -

Hello. This Friday, I host "20/20." I'm doing the whole hour on what we call "lookism," giving examples of how good-looking people (and taller men) get better treatment.

We like to think of America as a meritocracy. We value people because of their character, or generosity, or intelligence ... but why then does 37th-ranked tennis player Anna Kournikova make hundreds of thousands of dollars more than other top woman athletes? Kournikova hasn't even won a major tournament.

Was JFK Jr. covered so relentlessly by the press solely because he was the son of a president? And would we have cared so much about Princess Di if she had looked like Princess Anne?

"20/20" hired actors -- some great-looking, some not -- and then had them ask for help with a car that ran out of gas, collect money for charity, and apply for jobs. Repeatedly, the "lookers" got the job, collected MORE money in their charity buckets, and got much more help with their car. Life isn't fair.

We confront those who favored the better-looking actor, and listen to their embarrassed explanations.

We also cruelly assembled a line-up of men, including some who were short, and then asked women, "whom would you rather date?" They always picked the taller men. Even when we told the women the shorter man was a doctor, or a best-selling author, or rich -- they picked the taller men. Life isn't fair.

[Lizra]

It's a jungle out there!

[samwiselvr2008]

What time dos 20/20 come on?

I know that what they are talking about is treu, and it dose happen, but it shouldn't!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by samwiselvr2008
I know that what they are talking about is treu, and it dose happen, but it shouldn't!

You'd rather someone choose money over height?

I'm sure there's a very good biological reason why women select for men of height. (So they can run away faster. )

[samwiselvr2008]

Originally posted by BeardofPants


You'd rather someone choose money over height?

I'm sure there's a very good biological reason why women select for men of height. (So they can run away faster. )

What? That wasn't what I was talking about! I did wach the 20/20, how rude (what it said, not BoB)! People shouldn't be so mean! I think that would should be able to do something about it! *deep in thought* how about all getting together (everyone that is against it, as far as the job thing goes), do a research on wich jobs are doing that to people, and band them! Products and all!!!

[Blackheart]

Sorry, but lookism is built into the game.

It's one of those things that drives evolution you know.

I tink it's interesting that people who are otherwise succesful (i.e. they can garner resources -$ ) can then mimic other genetic processes by surgery.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Sorry, but lookism is built into the game.

It's one of those things that drives evolution you know.

I tink it's interesting that people who are otherwise succesful (i.e. they can garner resources -$ ) can then mimic other genetic processes by surgery.

That's true. However, it's not only the wealthy that use artificial means to mimic a "genetc" process though. Woman do it all the time when they apply makeup. Lipsticks give them fuller lips, blush gives them the color that they obtain when excited, etc or give themselves longer legs by wearing high heels. Men even enhance the broad shoulders with suits and so forth. A lot things we find stylish are there because biology has dictated that we find them attractive - even if it is only subconsciously.

[afro-elf]

That's true. However, it's not only the wealthy that use artificial means to mimic a "genetc" process though. Woman do it all the time when they apply makeup. Lipsticks give them fuller lips, blush gives them the color that they obtain when excited, etc or give themselves longer legs by wearing high heels. Men even enhance the broad shoulders with suits and so forth. A lot things we find stylish are there because biology has dictated that we find them attractive - even if it is only subconsciously.

I find it hypocritical that a person who would do any of the would be against plastic surgery.

[Lizra]

You do! Make up is simple, cheap, and washes off. Plastic surgery can be life threatening, involves surgery, blood loss, pain and is super expensive! Aren't you being a little heavy handed?

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Lizra
You do! Make up is simple, cheap, and washes off. Plastic surgery can be life threatening, involves surgery, blood loss, pain and is super expensive! Aren't you being a little heavy handed?

There is a QUANTITATIVE difference but the underlying idea is that you are changing your appearance to augment yourself.

All the make up, lipstick, high heels, perfumes etc... that you spend over years does add up.

[samwiselvr2008]

Originally posted by afro-elf
I find it hypocritical that a person who would do any of the would be against plastic surgery.

Wow! this thread is finally reopend! Well, I had a big role in this thread back a while ago when it was first opened, and I would like to add my two sence now to. I still find it wrong to do plastic surgery, for all of the reasons that Lizra mentioned. But as for the post by AE, I would like to say that, as for now, I do not were any make-up, so I'm not being hypocritical to say no to plastic surgery. I'm only fourteen, to maybe some day I will wear make-up, but for now, I fill that it is quite pointless. I like the way I look without it, and if any man or other pear that will or would not be my friend/boyfriend becasue of my looks, that's just there problem, because if all they care about is looks, then I don't want to be there's eather. In America, lot's of teens wear make-up, but I just think that I dont' need it, and though that may change, I never will nead it, even if I want it, and start to use it, the fact still stands, that at some point in my life, when other's my age were using it and judgeing me because I didn't, I stayed away from it. This would not justify my changing the beuty that God gave me, but just so that you know, at the time of these posts, I am clean of make-up and plastic surgery. And I'm proud of it

[Lizra]

Originally posted by afro-elf
There is a QUANTITATIVE difference but the underlying idea is that you are changing your appearance to augment yourself.

All the make up, lipstick, high heels, perfumes etc... that you spend over years does add up.

I probably wouldn't bother, but men get rather jacked up by the extra effort. I only wear lipstick and eyeliner though. Lipstick is truely fun to wear. The artist in me loves blending the crimsom stain ever so subtly on my lips! I hate the look and feel of flesh colored face stuff though.
Perfume! Oh what a joy! Intoxicating fragrance is in the nose of the smeller though....
Anyway, makeup is just a fun little toy compared to plastic surgery. I wonder what it feels like to have fake breasts?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
I find it hypocritical that a person who would do any of the would be against plastic surgery.

I'm not against plastic surgery. There are even plastic surgeons who travel to remote countries and provide their services to poor children all over the world.

One of the foundations that does this is The Ruth Paz foundation, another is The Smile Train.

The Ruth Paz Foundation offers orthopedic, plastic surgery, and

The Smile Train offers plastic surgery to fix cleft palates in places such as Uganda.

These children get surgery that is not medically necessary. However, the surgery does provide them a more normal life. Why would anyone be against that?

[Artanis]

Personally I think it's very sad that there seem to be no room in society for people who do not fit in with the general perception of 'beauty'. I wish people in general didn't have to feel the need of plastic surgery only to improve their looks.

I know there are many women around who have been through cancer treatment and got one or both breasts removed. But they are invisible. You don't see them on the beach, in public baths, in the fitness centers. Why not? Those women have saved their lives, and now they worry about how other people will stare at them if they show themselves. It's a crying shame.

[samwiselvr2008]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I'm not against plastic surgery. There are even plastic surgeons who travel to remote countries and provide their services to poor children all over the world.

One of the foundations that does this is The Ruth Paz foundation, another is The Smile Train.

The Ruth Paz Foundation offers orthopedic, plastic surgery, and

The Smile Train offers plastic surgery to fix cleft palates in places such as Uganda.

These children get surgery that is not medically necessary. However, the surgery does provide them a more normal life. Why would anyone be against that?

I'm not against that, I'm against people who do it only to make themselves look better, when it is completely unnesusary. What you mentioned above is wonderfull, they deserve to be supported, but as for people such as those on the A Makeup Story or whatever that TV show is called, they really don't need a make over. What they need is confidence, and if any change to how they look, then a work out, and basic stuff like how to get ready and do personall hygeen. Many times, on that show, if I whach there before and after pictures, if they had only lost some weight and comed there hair, then they would have looked better in their before pictures then the after ones. It's really sad when they go through so much plastic surgery, it seems like every woman change there breast size, and lot's of people have there nose resized, maybe there ears etc. the only practical thing that they do is teach personal hygeen, and how to stay in shape, plus for those with glasses, they get laser eye surgery, which I am not against any of those.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Artanis
Personally I think it's very sad that there seem to be no room in society for people who do not fit in with the general perception of 'beauty'. I wish people in general didn't have to feel the need of plastic surgery only to improve their looks.

I know there are many women around who have been through cancer treatment and got one or both breasts removed. But they are invisible. You don't see them on the beach, in public baths, in the fitness centers. Why not? Those women have saved their lives, and now they worry about how other people will stare at them if they show themselves. It's a crying shame.

But humans are social animals. It is normal to want fit in, and not stick out. I don't have a problem with it if the woman wants to have surgery to have implants because she has lost one or both breasts.

Also, my dad sent me a pic of a breast cancer survivor. He and my stepmother were at some festival or something, and it's the norm for people to wear close to nothing if they want. She was topless, but wearing a scarf across her one lost breast with a pink ribbon pin there. I think it was so brave of her, what with all the people there. You have to admire someone like that.

Though I think if that were to happen to me, I'd have surgery, if I could, to make me look like I had two breasts. Call me vain if you want, but I think I'd have problems with people asking me what happened all the time, and I'd long for a normal life.

Stuff happens to people... life isn't fair. You're born with a cleft palate and the doctor fixes that at birth. Or you break your nose as a kid and sometime later, you wish to fix that ugly bump that you have always felt selfconscious about.

I saw a show called Extreme Makeovers once, where this girl had horrible acne and acne scars and had them fixed through a plastic surgeon's office (I don't think it was surgery, I was sort of watching it and didn't see it all). She wore her hair in her face and kept a job where she didn't have to show her face to people because she was so aware of her acne and scars.

On the same show was this man who was really heavy all of his life and decided to lose the weight. He succeeded in doing so, but was left with all this sagging skin. He looked like a human bag, it was gross. I felt sorry for him, to have come to this point where he lost all that weight, and kept it off, only to be faced with another problem. The surgeons were able to take off most of the sagging skin, which was a big improvement.

I don't see why plastic surgery is considered a bad thing. People who have plastic surgery should not be made to feel vain or superficial. It's really sad how people stereotype others because they choose to do something to make themselves feel better about themselves and the way they look.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by samwiselvr2008
I'm not against that, I'm against people who do it only to make themselves look better, when it is completely unnesusary.

A good plastic surgeon will turn away a potential patient if they feel the surgery is unnecessary.

What you mentioned above is wonderfull, they deserve to be supported, ...

Thanks, I agree.

but as for people such as those on the A Makeup Story or whatever that TV show is called, they really don't need a make over. What they need is confidence, and if any change to how they look, then a work out, and basic stuff like how to get ready and do personall hygeen. Many times, on that show, if I whach there before and after pictures, if they had only lost some weight and comed there hair, then they would have looked better in their before pictures then the after ones. It's really sad when they go through so much plastic surgery, it seems like every woman change there breast size, and lot's of people have there nose resized, maybe there ears etc. the only practical thing that they do is teach personal hygeen, and how to stay in shape, plus for those with glasses, they get laser eye surgery, which I am not against any of those.

It sounds like a lot of people posting here have boundaries as to what sort of surgery is acceptable and what is not.

You say that laser eye surgery is ok. And you agreed that fixing a cleft palate for a child is also ok. But none of these things are life threatening, nor are they considered medically necessary.

I don't have a problem with a woman changing her breast size. Most people think women want bigger breasts. But the what about breast reductions? Many women with big breasts, by act of nature and genes, find it difficult to find clothes that fit (especially bathing suits), they tend to look fatter than they actually are and people don't take them seriously (because all they see is the big boobs). A woman who has a breast reduction does so with the full knowledge of the risks involved. From this site, http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/proc...d_consult.html I found the following information...

The procedure does leave noticeable, permanent scars, although they'll be covered by your bra or bathing suit. (Poor healing and wider scars are more common in smokers.) The procedure can also leave you with slightly mismatched breasts or unevenly positioned nipples. Future breast-feeding may not be possible, since the surgery removes many of the milk ducts leading to the nipples.

Some patients may experience a permanent loss of feeling in their nipples or breasts. Rarely, the nipple and areola may lose their blood supply and the tissue will die. (The nipple and areola can usually be rebuilt, however, using skin grafts from elsewhere on the body.)

I don't have a problem with this, nor do I have a problem with breast augmentation. If a woman is an 'A' cup and she can't fill her shirt, and she wants to have it done, why not? I don't see the big deal.

[Arien the Maia]

I have mixed feelings about Plastic Surgery....I know how it feels to be made fun of for the way you look....but I'm not sure if you should change the way God made you( yes, I'm religious ) at any rate, for one of my wedding presents, my Great Aunt offered to pay for a nose job for me becasue she over heard me talking about how much I HATE my nose ( I think it is WAY too big!!!).

I thought that was really nice of her and have taken her up on the offer...I'm calling next week to have a consoltation. I' m still a little nervous though

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I have mixed feelings about Plastic Surgery....I know how it feels to be made fun of for the way you look....but I'm not sure if you should change the way God made you( yes, I'm religious ) at any rate, for one of my wedding presents, my Great Aunt offered to pay for a nose job for me becasue she over heard me talking about how much I HATE my nose ( I think it is WAY too big!!!).

I thought that was really nice of her and have taken her up on the offer...I'm calling next week to have a consoltation. I' m still a little nervous though

Good luck. I hope it goes well for you. You'll have to send us a new photo after you heal.

[afro-elf]

, but men get rather jacked up by the extra effort.

No, I think women wear make-up for THEMSELVES. Most men that I know NEVER comment on what a nice make up job someone has.

The guys I know do not care.


I think you do it for yourself to make yourself feel "sexy".

I personally do not like make up on women. I REALLY like the natural look.