Martial arts: every thing thread - Page 5

Gilrond · 09-10-2002, 06:24 PM

In Aikido you can always throw them again. Aikido is designed that you exert no energy at all--you use your uke's energy to bring them down. Who's going to tire first? The founder of Akido Morihei Ueshiba used several different kinds of martial arts before creating his own--he was hailed as the best martial artist in the world. He knew what worked and what didn't.

BeardofPants · 09-10-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilrond
In Aikido you can always throw them again. Aikido is designed that you exert no energy at all--you use your uke's energy to bring them down. Who's going to tire first? The founder of Akido Morihei Ueshiba used several different kinds of martial arts before creating his own--he was hailed as the best martial artist in the world. He knew what worked and what didn't.

I'm not disputing Aikido's usage. But if the assailent is high on uppers, and has a knife, YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO THROW THEM AROUND AGAIN. You need to do something quick, efficient, and then RUN.

Gilrond · 09-10-2002, 06:31 PM

I know about a dozen ways to disarm someone with a knife, a sword, and a staff: from behind, from the side, from the front. Slash, stab, knife to throat, back, stomach, and chest. I don't want to disagree with you, but Aikido has been proven.

osszie · 09-10-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm not disputing Aikido's usage. But if the assailent is high on uppers, and has a knife, YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO THROW THEM AROUND AGAIN. You need to do something quick, efficient, and then RUN.

Exactly.

Gilrond I don't know if you have ever been in a street fight (if you havn't I hope you never will be) but yes there are dozens of ways to disarm/disable someone who is being violent towards you (I studied/practised Judo to black belt).......but if you mess up by a fraction of a second you are seriously hurt (at the worst...dead).

Fighting is not at all like it is portrayed in the movies.........it is fast, brutal and evil.........the best way to deal with it is to get out of it.

IMO It is excellent for anyone to study martial arts.........there are a lot of times when it is invaluable........but there are also times when it is useless............. a good martial arts teacher will teach you this.

Gilrond · 09-10-2002, 06:53 PM

I know. I've heard stories of my sensei's friends: sucker-punched, pistol-whipped, etc, etc.

The way Aikido is designed, you end the attack before it is begun. Before it gets brutal. I know sometimes you can't stop it, but the thing is, don't let it.

Statistics show that depressed people get attacked considerably more often than happy people. Police have interviewed caught criminals and they have said that they definitely go for the more depressed-looking. They don't even see the person sneaking up behind them.

But I do understand you. The best way is to get out of it. You said that you've studied judo, then you obviously have a firm grasp on martial arts, but, to further your grip, I advise you try out Aikido. Just visit a dojo and watch. You will not regret it.

Thank you for your point of view.

osszie · 09-10-2002, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilrond

Statistics show that depressed people get attacked considerably more often than happy people. Police have interviewed caught criminals and they have said that they definitely go for the more depressed-looking. They don't even see the person sneaking up behind them.

But I do understand you. The best way is to get out of it. You said that you've studied judo, then you obviously have a firm grasp on martial arts, but, to further your grip, I advise you try out Aikido. Just visit a dojo and watch. You will not regret it.

Thank you for your point of view.

This is very true.........opportunist criminals do look for the weak/innocent.

As for furthering my Martial Arts studies.......I would love to......but circumstances make it impossible

(poor me lol).

You are very welcome to "my point of view" (for what its worth

) Gilrond..........Good luck with you Aikido studies

Gilrond · 09-10-2002, 07:06 PM

Thank you, osszie

afro-elf · 09-10-2002, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spock
Just because it is a licensed art by the Japanese Government does make it `real`
Japan is not known for integrity when it comes to history especially its own,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh sanctimonious one, you know all and believe what you will. There are others who search and find truth and are steadfast in their comprehension of it even when treated as you have. [/B][/QUOTE]

(Oh sanctimonious one, you know all...) Isn`t this like the pot calling the kettle black?

(There are others who search and find truth) maybe you should check out the relativity thread. ie subject validation

(even when treated as you have.) with this being a written medium the tone MAY seem different that intended.

I only point I was making is that I think people tend to overestimate their chosen art.

If you find that offensive KIAI (smile)

afro-elf · 09-10-2002, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilrond
BeardofPants: Then how come at tournaments aikidoists nearly always get the better of all martial artists from different disciplines.? Violence will not change their mind on attacking someone either; non-violence will.

What PARTICULAR tournaments are these?

Gilrond · 09-11-2002, 12:34 AM

I believe it was the UFC, but I could be wrong.

Starr Polish · 09-11-2002, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm not disputing Aikido's usage. But if the assailent is high on uppers, and has a knife, YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO THROW THEM AROUND AGAIN. You need to do something quick, efficient, and then RUN.

Exactly, though often times grapplers will win in such tournaments (I've seen a few, and I think they're stupid). The main goal in my martial arts class is to get away. In the advanced class, held later at night, we're taught things that are meant to be used only if our life is truly in danger, or rape is a possible/probable reason for the attack. To quote my sensei:

"You want all the money I have. Here, take it." This is his basic attitude. Of course, you'd want to get away from this situation without causing permanent harm if you could, without giving up your money (or whatever the person demands).

[edit]: Another random "Just felt like throwing it out there" thing. Like in all subjects, there are good instructors, and there are bad instructors, and I've had both. My first martial artist instructor told the girls that if we were going to be attacked, we should yell "fire" instead of "rape", because people were more willing to come and help when they heard the former, and then we had to run around in circles for fifteen minutes yelling "fire, fire!". Yeah, we got out of there fast.

Spock · 09-11-2002, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Oh sanctimonious one, you know all...) Isn`t this like the pot calling the kettle black?

BLACK? I'D CALL YOU MAROON IF IT WOULD HELP.

QUOTE]Originally posted by afro-elf
(There are others who search and find truth) maybe you should check out the relativity thread. ie subject validation

This is a subject that I do know a great deal about both as a student and by research in the country of origin. You have not and it is ignorance personified to dismiss comments made by someone trying to enlighten you on the subject. Scrolls can be authenticated and when the techniques, weapons, etc. etc. are on such and they are as old as they purport to be, then the art is legitimate. We won't go into visually seeing the embodiment of the Art and those connected with it.

If you find that offensive KIAI (smile)

Spock · 09-11-2002, 04:10 PM

Fighting is not at all like it is portrayed in the movies.........it is fast, brutal and evil.........the best way to deal with it is to get out of it.

IMO It is excellent for anyone to study martial arts.........there are a lot of times when it is invaluable........but there are also times when it is useless............. a good martial arts teacher will teach you this. [/B][/QUOTE]

YEP INDEED. avoid, avoid, avoid.

Akido as shown in S.S. movies shows how effective it can be. And it's devestatingly easy for anyone to use.However, it does tend to need larger areas to work, barring a simple throw, as opposed to jiujitsu etc. (notice the etc. a.e.)
AND yes, I confess to being familiar with Akido and Aki-jitsu both practice and teaching. Seems a long life gets filled with all sorts of things. In full disclosure my main art is jiujitsu with ninjitsu second. Only for clarificaiton of the authors ability to comment honestly and accurately on this subject matter.

Gilrond · 09-11-2002, 07:34 PM

S.S. highly changed the art of Aikido in his films. He "hollywoodized" it to make more violent and, thus, more entertainable. Aikido is far from that spectrum of violence.

afro-elf · 09-11-2002, 10:57 PM

This is a subject that I do know a great deal about both as a student and by research in the country of origin. You have not and it is ignorance personified to dismiss comments made by someone trying to enlighten you on the subject.

Ignorance? Interesting that you are stating as fact about something which you do not know I shall enlighten you. I happen to be in Tamagawa Gakuen at the moment typing this. I have lived, traveled and studied in Asia for several years and not only in martial arts. Part of this included classes on Asian historical duplicity. This is not meant to say that my knowledge on the subject equals yours. However, lesser knowledge does not mean inaccurate, and different knowledge does not mean wrong.

You also have also failed to see that there is a difference between dismissing out of hand or just saying something is bull and expressing doubt about certain historical, mythological and mystical aspects of ninjiutsu.

CAN YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN MY PREVIOUS POST WERE I HAVE EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ART OF THE NINJA WAS TOTALLY BOGUS?

All you have said is that it is recognized by the government and that there old scrolls with pictures.

Votaries tend to accept what their teachers(leaders) say without SERIOUS question. You say that you have studied here then it should be well known to you that this is most often the case in Asia.

Your statemnet about enlightment I find supercillious because porports that you are enlightened yourself.

Instead of resorting to condesing and pejoritive language why don't you engage in some serious dialouge about the art (i.e. Some history, some links, your experience, your thoughts etc.)

Just because you have experience does not you master of it all. Just because you say something does not mean I have to blindingly accept it.

If really wish to enlighten why not teach instead of just say and why not discuss instead of just getting *upset*(?)

I am willing to learn; however, I will not(may not) passively just accept what you say without serious challenge.

afro-elf · 09-11-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilrond
I believe it was the UFC, but I could be wrong.

It DEFINATELY was not the UFC. There has NEVER been an aikido stylist to excel there. Actaully, I do not believe that one have even participate on those events.

afro-elf · 09-11-2002, 11:07 PM

Spock you mention being 'OLD'. Is it over 50? Do you still train in Jujitsu?

As you have gotten older do you still train the same? Or do you train differently? If so how?

Spock · 09-12-2002, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilrond
S.S. highly changed the art of Aikido in his films. He "hollywoodized" it to make more violent and, thus, more entertainable. Aikido is far from that spectrum of violence.

There is a point in this. The first movie where SS had artistic control was the one where he fights the group of men in a convenience store. It has to do with drugs, naturally, and I can't think of the name of it. However, SS did say that scene represents Akido and how he practiced and taught it.

Spock · 09-12-2002, 01:01 PM

Ignorance? Interesting that you are stating as fact about something which you do not know.

IGNORANCE : WEBSTER, NOT KNOWING, ABSENCE OF KNOWLEDGE--ON THIS SUBJECT THE USEAGE IS APPROPRIATE WHEN CITING YOUR REMARKS.

However, lesser knowledge does not mean inaccurate,

YES IT DOES IF IT IS NOT COMPLETE IT IS INACCURATE.

and different knowledge does not mean wrong

TRUE BUT DIFFERENT CAN BE DEFICIENT.

You also have also failed to see that there is a difference between dismissing out of hand or just saying something is bull and expressing doubt about certain historical, mythological and mystical aspects of ninjiutsu.

YOUR REMARKS DID NOT MENTIONS SPECIFICS THEY WERE OFFHANDED AND DIRISIVE OF THE ART AS A WHOLE

CAN YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN MY PREVIOUS POST WERE I HAVE EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ART OF THE NINJA WAS TOTALLY BOGUS?

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO REPEATEDLY STATED YOU DIDN'T THINK IT WAS "REAL" AND THAT THE CLAIMS WERE FALSE.

ENOUGH OF THIS. IF YOU ONLY RECOGNIZE YOUR OWN PATH THERE IS NO HOPE FOR GROWTH. TRAVEL AND STUDY ALL YOU WANT BUT WITHOUT AN OPEN MIND AND A REALIZATION THAT YOU NEVER KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW, YOU WILL BE AS ONE STUMBLING IN THE DARK.
All you have said is that it is recognized by the government and that there old scrolls with pictures.
NO THAT'S ONLY WHAT THE WORDS STATED, INFERANCE SHOULD FOLLOW ANYONE WHO INTERPRETS LANGUAGE FOR SPEECH.
.

Your statemnet about enlightment I find supercillious because porports that you are enlightened yourself. ONLY ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT. THE ENLIGHTEMENT OF NIRVANA ELUDES ME.

Instead of resorting to condesing and pejoritive language why don't you engage in some serious dialouge about the art (i.e. Some history, some links, your experience, your thoughts etc.)

BECAUSE I'VE ATTEMPTED TO PASS ON GENUINE INFORMATION IN THE HOPES OF PIQUING INTEREST OF THOSE WHO INQUIRED ABOUT THIS IN THE BEGINNING.

Just because you have experience does not you master of it all. Just because you say something does not mean I have to blindingly accept it.

IF YOU ASK AND DO NOT HEAR, I CANNOT HELP THAT EITHER.

THIS IS GOING NOWHERE. I'VE LIVED, STUDIED, TAUGHT AND LEARNED. YOU HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND I'M NOT WILLING TO CARRY YOU ANY LONGER.

HE WHO KNOWS NOT AND KNOWS NOT THAT HE KNOWS NOT IS A FOOL, SHUN HIM.

afro-elf · 09-13-2002, 07:23 AM

Quote:

YOUR REMARKS DID NOT MENTIONS SPECIFICS THEY WERE OFFHANDED AND DIRISIVE OF THE ART AS A WHOLE

THIS IS UTTERLY FALSE I posted this on 7-30-2002

there are those that practice it as an art and it is just like any other martial art. .... then there are those that are flat off the wall and just plain foolish. talking about magic, levitation, being unpeneratable and other such mystic type hollabaloo. so some is real some is fake. depends who your instructor is i guess.

It's the latter that i'm truly leary of. Like people who buy books like " Ninja Magic

again I repeat

You also have also failed to see that there is a difference between dismissing out of hand or just saying something is bull and expressing doubt about certain historical, mythological and mystical aspects of ninjiutsu.

I quoted above that some is real and some is fake.

09-11-2002, 04:10 PM	#93
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Fighting is not at all like it is portrayed in the movies.........it is fast, brutal and evil.........the best way to deal with it is to get out of it. IMO It is excellent for anyone to study martial arts.........there are a lot of times when it is invaluable........but there are also times when it is useless............. a good martial arts teacher will teach you this. [/B][/QUOTE] YEP INDEED. avoid, avoid, avoid. Akido as shown in S.S. movies shows how effective it can be. And it's devestatingly easy for anyone to use.However, it does tend to need larger areas to work, barring a simple throw, as opposed to jiujitsu etc. (notice the etc. a.e.) AND yes, I confess to being familiar with Akido and Aki-jitsu both practice and teaching. Seems a long life gets filled with all sorts of things. In full disclosure my main art is jiujitsu with ninjitsu second. Only for clarificaiton of the authors ability to comment honestly and accurately on this subject matter. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-11-2002, 10:57 PM	#95
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	This is a subject that I do know a great deal about both as a student and by research in the country of origin. You have not and it is ignorance personified to dismiss comments made by someone trying to enlighten you on the subject. Ignorance? Interesting that you are stating as fact about something which you do not know I shall enlighten you. I happen to be in Tamagawa Gakuen at the moment typing this. I have lived, traveled and studied in Asia for several years and not only in martial arts. Part of this included classes on Asian historical duplicity. This is not meant to say that my knowledge on the subject equals yours. However, lesser knowledge does not mean inaccurate, and different knowledge does not mean wrong. You also have also failed to see that there is a difference between dismissing out of hand or just saying something is bull and expressing doubt about certain historical, mythological and mystical aspects of ninjiutsu. CAN YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN MY PREVIOUS POST WERE I HAVE EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ART OF THE NINJA WAS TOTALLY BOGUS? All you have said is that it is recognized by the government and that there old scrolls with pictures. Votaries tend to accept what their teachers(leaders) say without SERIOUS question. You say that you have studied here then it should be well known to you that this is most often the case in Asia. Your statemnet about enlightment I find supercillious because porports that you are enlightened yourself. Instead of resorting to condesing and pejoritive language why don't you engage in some serious dialouge about the art (i.e. Some history, some links, your experience, your thoughts etc.) Just because you have experience does not you master of it all. Just because you say something does not mean I have to blindingly accept it. If really wish to enlighten why not teach instead of just say and why not discuss instead of just getting upset(?) I am willing to learn; however, I will not(may not) passively just accept what you say without serious challenge. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

09-11-2002, 11:07 PM	#97
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Spock you mention being 'OLD'. Is it over 50? Do you still train in Jujitsu? As you have gotten older do you still train the same? Or do you train differently? If so how? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

09-12-2002, 01:01 PM	#99
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Ignorance? Interesting that you are stating as fact about something which you do not know. IGNORANCE : WEBSTER, NOT KNOWING, ABSENCE OF KNOWLEDGE--ON THIS SUBJECT THE USEAGE IS APPROPRIATE WHEN CITING YOUR REMARKS. However, lesser knowledge does not mean inaccurate, YES IT DOES IF IT IS NOT COMPLETE IT IS INACCURATE. and different knowledge does not mean wrong TRUE BUT DIFFERENT CAN BE DEFICIENT. You also have also failed to see that there is a difference between dismissing out of hand or just saying something is bull and expressing doubt about certain historical, mythological and mystical aspects of ninjiutsu. YOUR REMARKS DID NOT MENTIONS SPECIFICS THEY WERE OFFHANDED AND DIRISIVE OF THE ART AS A WHOLE CAN YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN MY PREVIOUS POST WERE I HAVE EXPLICITLY SAID THAT ART OF THE NINJA WAS TOTALLY BOGUS? YOU'RE THE ONE WHO REPEATEDLY STATED YOU DIDN'T THINK IT WAS "REAL" AND THAT THE CLAIMS WERE FALSE. ENOUGH OF THIS. IF YOU ONLY RECOGNIZE YOUR OWN PATH THERE IS NO HOPE FOR GROWTH. TRAVEL AND STUDY ALL YOU WANT BUT WITHOUT AN OPEN MIND AND A REALIZATION THAT YOU NEVER KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW, YOU WILL BE AS ONE STUMBLING IN THE DARK. All you have said is that it is recognized by the government and that there old scrolls with pictures. NO THAT'S ONLY WHAT THE WORDS STATED, INFERANCE SHOULD FOLLOW ANYONE WHO INTERPRETS LANGUAGE FOR SPEECH. . Your statemnet about enlightment I find supercillious because porports that you are enlightened yourself. ONLY ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT. THE ENLIGHTEMENT OF NIRVANA ELUDES ME. Instead of resorting to condesing and pejoritive language why don't you engage in some serious dialouge about the art (i.e. Some history, some links, your experience, your thoughts etc.) BECAUSE I'VE ATTEMPTED TO PASS ON GENUINE INFORMATION IN THE HOPES OF PIQUING INTEREST OF THOSE WHO INQUIRED ABOUT THIS IN THE BEGINNING. Just because you have experience does not you master of it all. Just because you say something does not mean I have to blindingly accept it. IF YOU ASK AND DO NOT HEAR, I CANNOT HELP THAT EITHER. THIS IS GOING NOWHERE. I'VE LIVED, STUDIED, TAUGHT AND LEARNED. YOU HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND I'M NOT WILLING TO CARRY YOU ANY LONGER. HE WHO KNOWS NOT AND KNOWS NOT THAT HE KNOWS NOT IS A FOOL, SHUN HIM. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

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09-10-2002, 06:24 PM	#81
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	In Aikido you can always throw them again. Aikido is designed that you exert no energy at all--you use your uke's energy to bring them down. Who's going to tire first? The founder of Akido Morihei Ueshiba used several different kinds of martial arts before creating his own--he was hailed as the best martial artist in the world. He knew what worked and what didn't.

09-10-2002, 06:31 PM	#83
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I know about a dozen ways to disarm someone with a knife, a sword, and a staff: from behind, from the side, from the front. Slash, stab, knife to throat, back, stomach, and chest. I don't want to disagree with you, but Aikido has been proven.

09-10-2002, 06:53 PM	#85
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I know. I've heard stories of my sensei's friends: sucker-punched, pistol-whipped, etc, etc. The way Aikido is designed, you end the attack before it is begun. Before it gets brutal. I know sometimes you can't stop it, but the thing is, don't let it. Statistics show that depressed people get attacked considerably more often than happy people. Police have interviewed caught criminals and they have said that they definitely go for the more depressed-looking. They don't even see the person sneaking up behind them. But I do understand you. The best way is to get out of it. You said that you've studied judo, then you obviously have a firm grasp on martial arts, but, to further your grip, I advise you try out Aikido. Just visit a dojo and watch. You will not regret it. Thank you for your point of view.

09-10-2002, 07:06 PM	#87
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	Thank you, osszie

09-11-2002, 12:34 AM	#90
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I believe it was the UFC, but I could be wrong.

09-11-2002, 07:34 PM	#94
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	S.S. highly changed the art of Aikido in his films. He "hollywoodized" it to make more violent and, thus, more entertainable. Aikido is far from that spectrum of violence.