Soldiers horrifically abuse Iraqis

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Valandil
Who knows... I just try to be welcoming and friendly... and give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they're being honest and forthright.

Well, it isn't very nice to make nice members feel like fools.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, it isn't very nice to make nice members feel like fools.

Kind of what I had thought...

Stuff like that doesn't really bother me though. It's just a fact that with the computer, we're all somewhat anonymous, and it's very easy to be deceptive. For my part, I prefer to be honest.

[Coney II]

Originally posted by Valandil
Kind of what I had thought...

Stuff like that doesn't really bother me though. It's just a fact that with the computer, we're all somewhat anonymous, and it's very easy to be deceptive. For my part, I prefer to be honest.

Yer lucky......I joined up with this name (my original was just Coney) and no bugger would believe it was me!

[Lalaith_Elf]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, it isn't very nice to make nice members feel like fools.

I know it isn't. I never said it was.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
I know it isn't. I never said it was.

I didn't say you did say that. I was referring to members that create new accounts deceptively while trying to get around bans.

[Lalaith_Elf]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I didn't say you did say that. I was referring to members that create new accounts deceptively while trying to get around bans.

Ah, okay. I'm having a 'slow' day.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
I know it isn't. I never said it was.

Well, like I said, for my part, I never feel too bad about it. If someone wants to "pull the wool over my eyes" online... it's just not the greatest accomplishment.

Now... planning and implementing a little prank whereby everyone changes their birthday to April 1, without letting any mods or admins in on it... now THAT'S an accomplishment!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, we probably should get on topic folks.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Coney II
Yer lucky......I joined up with this name (my original was just Coney) and no bugger would believe it was me!

That's right! It took awhile! "Coney II" just sounded so ...unimaginative, I guess! I was expecting something snazzily outrageous

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, we probably should get on topic folks.

But THAT was what started all the 'trouble' anyway!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Valandil
But THAT was what started all the 'trouble' anyway!

Nah, more than that.

[Coney II]

Originally posted by Lizra
That's right! It took awhile! "Coney II" just sounded so ...unimaginative, I guess! I was expecting something snazzily outrageous

hehe! that was prolly in the really bad [worst] days of me drinkin' (six months on the wagon and counting now *sigh* ) ........ I barely had the braincells left for imagination at the time

ok sgh......stop scowling, I ain't hijacking yer thread

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Nah, more than that.

OK, OK...

Sure WAS an awful thing over at that there prison. And while it does NOT reflect on the average US soldier over there, it dishonors them by association and hampers the effectiveness of our mission there - as well as our hopes for its success.

And there certainly seem to be valid concerns about what our highest leaders knew when, and whether their policies, passed down the line, were interpreted in such a way as to provide impetus for such actions.

Then there's the question of what to do from here. I think we need to punish those involved, possibly even to Secretary Rumsfeld (I believe proper judgement on our President, if any is needed, is most appropriately left in the hands of our people - especially since our next Presidential Election is imminent). We should also re-examine our policies. In retrospect, we can see how in the months immediately after Sept 11, 2001 - it was a natural thing for us to want to set aside things like the Geneva Convention in dealing with terrorists - who were not 'soldiers' in a classic sense. 32 months later... maybe it's time we take another look at the decisions we made two years ago and re-evaluate their long-term validity.

Then - the question of what to do in Iraq from here. Whoo - that's a toughie! Things are looking much mirkier... more difficult now. I believe we MUST stay until we are certain we can leave a more stable country than the one we dismantled. I'm not sure how we can be certain of that... We must look carefully at what steps should be taken though. How do we best involve the people of Iraq? How do we best involve other nations? How do we curb the fanaticism we're butting our heads against? Or is there any curbing of it? Must it rather simply be countered?

How was that?

[Beor]

Originally posted by Buster
I'm just reading the rules... is this allowed? Isn't this considered trying to hide a censored word?

Hey, I never said I was a good person, or that I had any self control, or that I tried to hide it.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
Well, Bush stood on the deck of that aircraft carrier a year ago and paraded up and down in a costume under a banner saying "Mission Accomplished". They obviously had made no plans for a post-war settlement, and the whole premise for going to war was at best flawed intelligence and at worst a doctrinal foreign policy experiment designed to line the pockets of Bush's backers along the way.

I resent your suggestion that I welcome the butchering of Americans in Iraq. The fact that what has happened has been almost exactly what I predicted before the war started is no comfort at all.

If you are going to post in this thread, please do us the courtesy of putting forward some coherent arguments rather than just slinging insults and questioning people's motives.

Alas, I'm not keen on politics. I'm sorry.

If you dont want people to think that you simply want things to go wrong in Iraq so that Bush gets kicked, then stop Ill-wishing.

[brownjenkins]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
In a similar vein, I think Brown Jenkins, Insidious Rex, and Cirdan all need rounds of applause for their objectivity, and well enunciated posts.

belated thanks BoP

good points too Val... i think the solution is to do everything we can to raise the standard of living for the average iraqi... as i said earlier, the fanatics will always exist, the question is how do you reduce their following

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Incompetent? how can you possibly tell? the freaking war isnt over yet, and for all you know, it could all be going very forward and progressive in iraq. But you wont hear that, because all the anti-Bushites filter it all out, and keep the bad stuff!
And kicking the Prez out of office is most certainly not going to solve the world's problems...
The world is going nuts, and do we need a President who is going to let sit, and wait till the shark comes into our water? Well, thats exactly what you're going to get if Kerry takes the throne.

Do you honestly think that by forcing a democratic government in Iraq that it is going to solve the problem? And what gives the U.S. the right to tell other countires how they should run their country?

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Do you honestly think that by forcing a democratic government in Iraq that it is going to solve the problem? And what gives the U.S. the right to tell other countires how they should run their country?

You can't force your own style of government on another country unfamilar with it and expect them to love it and it work wonderfully. The only thing Iraqis know is an autocracy, and they can't just jump right into democracy. Especially when there is so much internal turmoil and hatred between the Shiites/Sunis/etc.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Mercutio
You can't force your own style of government on another country unfamilar with it and expect them to love it and it work wonderfully. The only thing Iraqis know is an autocracy, and they can't just jump right into democracy. Especially when there is so much internal turmoil and hatred between the Shiites/Sunis/etc.

Exactly, forcing Iraq to become a democracy is a not a good solution in my opinion. Lets be realistic here, lets say a communist (or any other type of government) country invaded the U.S. and forced the U.S. adapt to that type of government, how would you feel? I would be pissed off.

[Beor]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Exactly, forcing Iraq to become a democracy is a not a good solution in my opinion. Lets be realistic here, lets say a communist (or any other type of government) country invaded the U.S. and forced the U.S. adapt to that type of government, how would you feel? I would be pissed off.

So what would you have us do, man? Pull out? Leave these people to kill eachother? Sure. Screw it. Better they kill each other than us. If we pull out, this country will fall to the next wacko religious leader, and everything will go to hell more than it already has. There is no unity here, no pride, just a bunch of lost children with mean streaks looking for any way possible to get ahead, no matter who they have to kill or betray. Think there are a lot of terrorists here now? I mean hell, most of the attacks against coalition forces are done by terrorists, foreign terrorists, trying to make a base of power in Iraq, trying to move the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people against western influence. So, we leave, and we will have to come back in a few years and do it all over again.