Soldiers horrifically abuse Iraqis

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Then I hope you will refrain from using this to condemnn Bush or Rumsfeld - since it seems like neither of them knew anything about the situation. Rumor has it that Rumself may have given the orders - but there isn't any confirmed indication. Especially since back in January he had said an investigation had been started about the abuse.

I will hold off on refraining until everything is laid out... If either knew... they should have the worst thrown at them.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
comic relief?

I actually don't find it very funny.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I will hold off on refraining until everything is laid out... If either knew... they should have the worst thrown at them.

I have serious doubts Bush had any idea. Rumsfeld I also doubt - since in January he had put the press release out that an investigation was started about prison abuse. If he knew and had ordered it - then I doubt he would have had an investigation started on it. Also- chances are it would have been far more wide spread.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I have serious doubts Bush had any idea. Rumsfeld I also doubt - since in January he had put the press release out that an investigation was started about prison abuse. If he knew and had ordered it - then I doubt he would have had an investigation started on it. Also- chances are it would have been far more wide spread.

What if they were found to have known? What do you think should be done to them if that is what the investigation finds?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
What if they were found to have known? What do you think should be done to them if that is what the investigation finds?

Then as I have said with Rumsfeld - that he should lose his job and be prosecuted. If Bush - then impeached. But as I said - nothing except for rumor indicates that at all.

But as I said here too - I don't think that Rumsfeld or anyone else should lose their job just as an example to appease arab opinion.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Then as I have said with Rumsfeld - that he should lose his job and be prosecuted. If Bush - then impeached. But as I said - nothing except for rumor indicates that at all.

But as I said here too - I don't think that Rumsfeld or anyone else should lose their job just as an example to appease arab opinion.

No, I agree... we should no more affect their government as they shoud not affect ours.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
comic relief?

This needs to be reposted. So... apt. (and I don't know whether to laugh or cry...)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
comic relief?

I see the question mark after "comic relief." You find this funny? If so, you should be ashamed of yourself. It is these very sort of things that make America look bad. Posting such a picture only serves to inflame the hatred for America. We have no idea how far up the chain of command this goes and until we do, this ridiculous cartoon that you have posted is just a statement that reflects your opinion of who is guilty before the investigation is complete Not only does it reflect pre-judgement on your part, it demeans the US. I just can't wait for your reply. Shame on you!

[Beor]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Heya Bill, doing good. Yourself? Read Dune yet?

Yeah, havent read Dune yet though *protects those that need protecting* I will get to it though...

Well said, Sister Golden Hair.

I am really tired of everyone taking low blows at our country. Just back off for a minute and wait to see what happens. [refrain][refrain][refrain]

[Millane]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I see the question mark after "comic relief." You find this funny? If so, you should be ashamed of yourself. It is these very sort of things that make America look bad. Posting such a picture only serves to inflame the hatred for America. We have no idea how far up the chain of command this goes and until we do, this ridiculous cartoon that you have posted is just a statement that reflects your opinion of who is guilty before the investigation is complete Not only does it reflect pre-judgement on your part, it demeans the US. I just can't wait for your reply. Shame on you!

wheeeew. i havent kept up with this thread but it seems pretty relevant to the issue, i found nothing ridiculous about this cartoon, a common media tool to get a point across and surely you must think that the question should be asked?... ill let IR post for himself, but if it was me i would not feel any shame, it only starts demeaning the US if people see truth in it and i dont think that people will make up there mind based on a cartoon, it is more the idea that it is portraying. So just curious is it the message that you do not like or is it the "tastelessness" of the picture itself
unfortunately innocent till proven guilty isnt always the case, especially in politics, but i really see no problem in the cartoon...

[Janny]

Actually, I'm pro-the administration essentially and therefore have a stand of wait-and-see, but I didn't find this cartoon offensive. It's not a view I agree with and I hope sincerely that it is incorrect, but as a cartoon I see no reason why in a country of free speech someone who believes it cannot make their statement.

Also I think it's important to note the collar around the neck. The comment isn't solely about the treatment of detainees, but the whole conflict.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Millane
wheeeew. i havent kept up with this thread but it seems pretty relevant to the issue, i found nothing ridiculous about this cartoon, a common media tool to get a point across and surely you must think that the question should be asked?... ill let IR post for himself, but if it was me i would not feel any shame, it only starts demeaning the US if people see truth in it and i dont think that people will make up there mind based on a cartoon, it is more the idea that it is portraying. So just curious is it the message that you do not like or is it the "tastelessness" of the picture itself
unfortunately innocent till proven guilty isnt always the case, especially in politics, but i really see no problem in the cartoon...

The problem with the cartoon is that it makes an underhanded accusatin BEFORE the facts are known. Pictures speak louder than words as has been demonstrated all too clearly with this case. All anyone sees is that Bush is holding a leash and it implies that Bush is the one guilty. It isn't about truth - it's about a liberal cartoon which is their to purely turn public opinion and make people ASSUME that Bush is guilty.

I also find the picture tasteless because what happened is NOT a joke and should not be used as a joke.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Shame on you!

Ummm.... I read this one already in the Washington Post. IR is only sharing a print of an item from a major newspaper. The point is to raise questions. Why shame?

The general in charge of interogations was sent to oversee intelligence gathering in Iraq last fall, coinciding with the CIAs increased effort to obtain intelligence from detainees. Is this all a coincidence or was it planned? It is a legitimate question. And it was posed as a question not an accusation.

Not very funny, however. I find no joy in the events I feared would happen once we were entrenched in Iraq. If I could have it go away for the price of having no representation of my views in the government, i would be more than glad.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Ummm.... I read this one already in the Washington Post. IR is only sharing a print of an item from a major newspaper. The point is to raise questions. Why shame?

The general in charge of interogations was sent to oversee intelligence gathering in Iraq last fall, coinciding with the CIAs increased effort to obtain intelligence from detainees. Is this all a coincidence or was it planned? It is a legitimate question. And it was posed as a question not an accusation.

It's merely asking a question - it's point blank making the accusation that Bush knew - by HIM being the one holding the chain. It's a political cartoon - as with many political cartoons - that try to sway public opinon before even the facts are known. A question of how far up the chain of command something goes is a valid point - making accusations and impositions for political reasons in this event is outrageous.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally posted by Ruinel

Please try to remember that we have an American soldier that posts here. Get your story straight, before you release yourself upon us all.

I dont care if the 82 Airborne is posting here, I am entitled to my opinion. And I didn't say that all the US Soldiers are abusing captives. Thats crap. I said that its naive to think that there was only this incident, just because at this one someone brought their camera. For the twelth time, what if their were more, abuses that wern't attended by amatuer Quentin Tarrintino's? Thats what an investigation will turn up.

Bring on the abuse! (to me and my posts, before everyone cries because I used the word "good" in a post that people misread...)

So emotional. Tisk.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Shame on you!

Just because you dont agree with what it represents? And here is me thinking we are entitled to our own views. Oh yeah, free media for all.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Just because you dont agree with what it represents? And here is me thinking we are entitled to our own views. Oh yeah, free media for all.

It isn't because it's not agreeing with their views. How think are you? It has to do with the fact that it implies something that there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence of. It also uses a disgusting image that all of us are outraged by. If we had cartoons of Berg being headed and have the terrorists represent the Middle East - I would be against that also.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
I dont care if the 82 Airborne is posting here, I am entitled to my opinion. And I didn't say that all the US Soldiers are abusing captives. Thats crap. I said that its naive to think that there was only this incident, just because at this one someone brought their camera. For the twelth time, what if their were more, abuses that wern't attended by amatuer Quentin Tarrintino's? Thats what an investigation will turn up.

The problem with you is that you are NOT waiting for the investigation - nor were you saying that that it was NOT the entire army. You made statements to indicate that you feel it is standard procedure in the army to do this to prisoners. So don't take the high ground now after all the crap you have spewed out repeatedly in your posts.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Just because you dont agree with what it represents? And here is me thinking we are entitled to our own views. Oh yeah, free media for all.

No, not just because I don't agree with what it represents. Because it depicts something that is not a proven fact. Cirdan points out that this pic came from a popular magazine or newspaper. I don't care where the pic came from. Here on Entmoot all it serves to do is feed the anti-American poster's pleasure, and inflame their opposition. I consider it no more than flamebait. It has nothing to do with expressing a legitimate view, which can easily be done with a little intelligence and finger tapping.

[Radagast The Brown]

Is it legal to write what could be found lieson someone in USA? Can't Bush sue the newpaper, or the one who draw the comic, for defamation(?)?
Of course, if Bush did know that....