A Mortal Life - Page 3

Artanis · 09-09-2004, 03:13 AM

I think so too Beren - I'm not sure if there was a place for Dwarves in the halls of Mandos. And why not Aulë? Who knows if he had a secret dwelling in some mountain in Valinor for Dwarven spirits.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-09-2004, 11:35 AM

Does it say anything about it anywhere because if not I'd guess that they do go to the Halls of Aule.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 09-09-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Does it say anything about it anywhere because if not I'd guess that they do go to the Halls of Aule.

Again, there is no such thing as the "Halls of Aule." They are considered Children of Iluvatar, but Aule is their maker. Even the Dwarves say that they will go to the halls of Mandos.

From the Silmarillion, Houghton Mifflin edition, 1977.

Quote:

Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the Dwarves returned to the earth and the stone of which they were made; yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aule the Maker, whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Iluvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in the End.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-09-2004, 04:17 PM

So they stayed forever in the Halls of Mandos whilst the spirits of elves could return.

Halbarad of the Dunedain · 09-09-2004, 05:14 PM

I can not remember where, possibly Silmarillion in the chapter of Aulë and the dwarves, yet I am pretty sure Tolkien said the dwarves would go somwhere not Valinor(Halls of Mandos) and not... wherever men go. I may be wrong so don't slay me for making this claim, but I really think it says this somewhere.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 09-09-2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

So they stayed forever in the Halls of Mandos whilst the spirits of elves could return.

Here is more of what the Dwarves have to say about their fate.

From The War of the Jewels, Volume 11, the Histories of Middle-earth series.

Quote:

Aule cares for them and gathers them in Mandos in halls set apart for them, and there they wait, not in idleness but in the practice of crafts and the learning of yet deeper lore. And Aule, they say, declared to their Fathers of old that Iluvatar had accepted from him the work of his desire, and that Iluvatar will hallow them and will give them a place among the Children in the End. Then their part shall be to serve Aule and to aid him in the re-making of Arda after the Last Battle.

Michael Martinez · 10-13-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Again, there is no such thing as the "Halls of Aule." They are considered Children of Iluvatar, but Aule is their maker. Even the Dwarves say that they will go to the halls of Mandos.

Technically, Aule did have halls in Valinor. He just didn't gather the Dwarven spirits there.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 10-13-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

Technically, Aule did have halls in Valinor. He just didn't gather the Dwarven spirits there.

Really? Where can I read about that?

Michael Martinez · 10-14-2004, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Really? Where can I read about that?

There is a passage somewhere about Mahtan's family living near the halls of Aule. It might be in the fragment of "Shibboleth of Feanor" which was published in Vinyar Tengwar (he was not called Mahtan there, but something like Rusco and another name). It might be in the main text of "The Shibboleth of Feanor" itself, in The Peoples of Middle-earth.

Ælfwine · 10-14-2004, 03:16 AM

You can also find a reference to "Aulë's Great Court" in Karen Wynn-Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth. I think that it is placed just west of Valmar.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 10-14-2004, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

It says somewhere about elves envying m en for their gift of death and men envying elves for their gift of immortality.

The grass is always greener on the other side

Michael Martinez · 10-14-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ælfwine

You can also find a reference to "Aulë's Great Court" in Karen Wynn-Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth. I think that it is placed just west of Valmar.

She based that on The Book of Lost Tales, and it's not quite the same thing.

09-09-2004, 03:13 AM	#41
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I think so too Beren - I'm not sure if there was a place for Dwarves in the halls of Mandos. And why not Aulë? Who knows if he had a secret dwelling in some mountain in Valinor for Dwarven spirits. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

09-09-2004, 11:35 AM	#42
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Does it say anything about it anywhere because if not I'd guess that they do go to the Halls of Aule. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-09-2004, 04:17 PM	#44
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	So they stayed forever in the Halls of Mandos whilst the spirits of elves could return. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-09-2004, 05:14 PM	#45
Halbarad of the Dunedain Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Arthedian Posts: 460	I can not remember where, possibly Silmarillion in the chapter of Aulë and the dwarves, yet I am pretty sure Tolkien said the dwarves would go somwhere not Valinor(Halls of Mandos) and not... wherever men go. I may be wrong so don't slay me for making this claim, but I really think it says this somewhere. __________________ "Can you feel her, running through your veins? She will always live forever!" ~ Atreyu [Her portrait in Black] "I want to see pretty people doing ugly things..." ~ Unknown "Damn it n' such!" ~ Stewie Griffen

10-14-2004, 03:16 AM	#50
Ælfwine Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 23	You can also find a reference to "Aulë's Great Court" in Karen Wynn-Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth. I think that it is placed just west of Valmar. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
When Real Life Meets the Internet	Nurvingiel	General Messages	58	03-26-2009 08:14 PM
Ave Papa - we have a new Pope	MrBishop	General Messages	133	09-26-2005 10:19 AM
If you could respond with your thoughts....	Drgnslyer	General Messages	5	04-14-2005 07:20 AM
Why Did Elros Choose A Mortal Life?	ItalianLegolas	The Silmarillion	55	01-17-2005 04:14 PM
Elves that become mortal	Thingol's new Wife	Middle Earth	30	07-24-2003 12:03 PM