Powerful creatures of ME

[Gwaimir Windgem]

He refers to Eru as "he", but never says that he has is a male. Are you confused yet? Let me explain. In the book, it would be quite redundant to keep say Eru this and then Eru that and on and on. Instead, you would use "he".

Then he could say "it". Besides, how many characters did actually say "<blank> is male" or "<blank> is female". Maybe Gildor was really a girl, or genderless!

Could Goldberry in secret be Eru?

No, for the same reason Bombadil could not (at least one of them): Tolkien stated that Eru never took shape in Ea.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Then he could say "it". Besides, how many characters did actually say "<blank> is male" or "<blank> is female". Maybe Gildor was really a girl, or genderless!

'It' would make Eru sound like some weird object, or an animal.
Gildor, a girl?? Doesn't the fact that Tolkien repeatedly say 'he' suggest that Gildor may be ah-hem male ?

They were now silent, and as the last Elf passed he turned and looked towards the hobbits and laughed.

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
No, for the same reason Bombadil could not (at least one of them): Tolkien stated that Eru never took shape in Ea.

True.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

But Eru is also referred to as "he". Posted by Ruinel the Blasphemer:

He refers to Eru as "he", but never says that he has is a male. Are you confused yet? Let me explain. In the book, it would be quite redundant to keep say Eru this and then Eru that and on and on. Instead, you would use "he".

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I had forgotten the first post.

Sorry, Johnathan. You asked about "creatures" and you defined "creatures" in your starting post for this thread. But you said to leave out the Valar, I'm also assuming Eru as well. I got the impression when you started this thread that you were naming beings that did not take on shape of Elves and Men. Am I mistaken?

When I started the thread, I wanted to find an answer to which beast was the strongest in Middle-Earth during the Third Age.
I should have said this in my first post to avoid missunderstandings.

[Linaewen]

But Eru is also referred to as "he". Posted by Ruinel the Blasphemer:

Huh? *confused* What is your stance on Eru's gender? I think Ruinel is right...
Besides, Gildor is not the creator of Arda. He is just an elf, what does it matter what gender he is? (I am starting to become very confused now)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

As Eru is referred to as "he" (when he could be referred to as "it"), and as Eru is, quite simply, the Christian God, who is widely believed (and was even more so back in those days) to be male. Also, note the name Iluvatar, or "All-father".)

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
As Eru is referred to as "he" (when he could be referred to as "it"), and as Eru is, quite simply, the Christian God, who is widely believed (and was even more so back in those days) to be male. Also, note the name Iluvatar, or "All-father".)

That's true, it probably should have been:

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar, and it made the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of its thought, and they were with itbefore aught else was made. And it spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before it, and it was glad.

Where the heck did discussion about Eru's gender come from in a thread about powerful creatures of ME, anyway? (Sorry Jonathon)

For the record, I personally believe that God is neither female or male, just like Eru. (fine, call me a blasphemer, see if I care)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oh, no, that wasn't what I meant. I meant her remark about Tom Bombadil.

[Linaewen]

Well, in this entire quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
As Eru is referred to as "he" (when he could be referred to as "it"), and as Eru is, quite simply, the Christian God, who is widely believed (and was even more so back in those days) to be male. Also, note the name Iluvatar, or "All-father".)

.. you say nothing about Tom Bombadil; rather you discuss Eru's gender. What was I to think?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, I can completely understand that I wasn't very clear...

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yes, I can completely understand that I wasn't very clear...

Go Lin!

I can't believe we've spent an entire page talking about Eru's gender. Maybe there should be a thread about it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I was thinking the same thing...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yes, I can completely understand that I wasn't very clear...

This is exactly what I mean: Mortals are so hard to understand, they are not clear in what they say!
If blasphemer you call me because I named Tom B as boring, then so be it.
Johnathan: thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding about this thread.
And now... back on topic, please.

[Jonathan]

I've come to think about all the races of trolls and giants. There are cave-trolls, hill-trolls, mountain-trolls, snow-trolls, stone-trolls, ogres and stone-giants. How powerful where they? Do you 'Mooters think they could compete with the Shelob for example? Or were they not that powerful?

[Linaewen]

I've come to think about all the races of trolls and giants. There are cave-trolls, hill-trolls, mountain-trolls, snow-trolls, stone-trolls, ogres and stone-giants. How powerful where they? Do you 'Mooters think they could compete with the Shelob for example? Or were they not that powerful?

I don't think so. I believe that Shelob was far more powerful, and certainly more intelligent.

The Balrogs were probably the most powerful (evil) creatures:

'It was a Balrog of Morgoth,' said Legolas; 'of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower'

.. but I don't know about 'good' creatures like Tom Bombadil. Can the Ents be discussed here, Jonathan?

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Linaewen
.. but I don't know about 'good' creatures like Tom Bombadil. Can the Ents be discussed here, Jonathan?

Yes, of course. As I said in my first post:

Then there are very powerful creatures like the ents (who singlehandedly destroyed Isengard)

[Linaewen]

Oh right. Sorry. I didn't see anyone else posting about them, so I thought they weren't included. I will think of things to post about them soon, at the moment I am trying to think of bad things about Boromir.

[Jonathan]

Nah, try to think of all the good things that Boromir did instead I liked Boromir.

[Linaewen]

I don't. Anyway, I noticed you have found the thread I posted in. *waits anxiously for page to load to see Jonathan's attack on my post*

So... the Ents. WooHoo! You didn't attack it!

[Aragorn_of_the_west]

the ents may be powerful but there are a few things that cant make them ht emost powerful( less than balrogs anyway)

they are not miar biengs like the balrogs, and they have a weakness to fire- and balrogs control fire- the contrast is quite obviuos...