Powerful creatures of ME

***Jonathan*** · 03-11-2003, 04:35 PM

There have been many mighty creatures roaming the lands of Middle-Earth. I want to discuss which of the creatures that is the most powerful. I have selected three candidates from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to the title "the most powerful creature of Middle-Earth". I have left out creatures mentioned in other books of Tolkien, like Ungoliant. Let's also skip people like the wizards, the valar, the elves, the Uruk-hai and Sauron.
My candidates are:

The dragon Smaug, who we could read about in The Hobbit. Smaug lived in the Lonely Mountain, where he guarded a huge dwarven treasure. The mighty dragon described himself like this:
"My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!"

But in the end of The Hobbit, the dragon was slain by the bowman Bard of Laketown. If Smaug was killed by a human, maybe he wasn't that great after all?

The spider-shaped Shelob, who dwelt in the mountains on the western borders of Mordor. In LotR, we could read of how she fed on orcs, and that Sauron deliberately sent orcs to her. The Shelob could have been a powerful servant of Sauron, but I believe that she to powerful to be controlled. To have Sauron feeding her says much of her power

But if the Shelob was so powerful, how could a little hobbit like Sam wound her as much as he did in The Two Towers?

The Balrog of Moria, known as Durin's bane. The creature could shroud himself in darkness and engulfed himself in flames. In The Fellowship of the Ring, the Company of the Ring travelled through Moria and ran into Durin's bane. He seemed to equal Gandalf's powers, at that says much of how mighty the Balrog was. The two Maiar clashed and fell into the deepest caverns beneath Moria.

After pursuing the Balrog for a week and fighting a though battle for two days, the Balrog was defeated. Not many creatures in Middle-Earth could prove to be such a challenge for Gandalf. The wizard was even "killed", stressing the incredible power of the Balrog.

Then there are very powerful creatures like the ents (who singlehandedly destroyed Isengard), the Nazgûl, Gwaihir and the Eagles, Beorn, Tom Bombadil and maybe the Oliphaunts.

Now, who is the most powerful? Some would claim that no one is as powerful as Smaug, since "he is the biggest of them all".
Others would say that the Balrog could beat Smaug any day.
Perhaps the Shelob has some fans saying that she is the most powerful.
Personally, I would say the Balrog is the strongest. What do the other 'mooters think?

Elf Girl · 03-11-2003, 04:39 PM

The Balrog. Definitely. It's a MAIA for Eru's sake!

Radagast The Brown · 03-11-2003, 05:02 PM

I agree with Elf Girl. The dragon is strong, but not enough, and Shelob has no chance. She's so week near them!The balrog is the strongest.

Dunadan · 03-11-2003, 05:07 PM

Tom Bombadil. Master, last as he was first, no-one ever caught him. And a vision in those wellies.

Though he doesn't play away matches, of course...

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-11-2003, 05:13 PM

Actually, Ungoliant and Ancalagon the Black are both mentioned in LOTR.

Maybe Glaurung, too.

I would say Ungoliant. For rather obvious reasons.

EDIT: As WF said, most impressive female character in Tolkien's works!

***Jonathan*** · 03-11-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Actually, Ungoliant and Ancalagon the Black are both mentioned in LOTR. Maybe Glaurung, too.

I would say Ungoliant. For rather obvious reasons.

EDIT: As WF said, most impressive female character in Tolkien's works!

Yes, they were mentioned in LotR, but they are kind of "out of date". Their time was long before the events of The Hobbit and LotR, and I think it will be more interesting to discuss the more "present" creatures.
Otherwize, I agree with you that Ungoliant is the strongest for obvious reasons

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-11-2003, 05:33 PM

Well, Hoom, Hum, Hroom... Well, all of them are dead except Shelob, so I'd probably have to say her.

***Jonathan*** · 03-11-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Well, Hoom, Hum, Hroom... Well, all of them are dead except Shelob, so I'd probably have to say her.

Would have been nice to see the Shelob and Bombadil struggle against each other

Who would win?

Falagar · 03-11-2003, 05:58 PM

I'll go for Bombadil.

Radagast The Brown · 03-12-2003, 03:42 PM

Yeah, me too.

And, Tom Bombadil is not a creature, as the wizards aren't.

Lalaith · 03-12-2003, 03:55 PM

I guess old Glaurung was more powerful than Smaug but well ... that doesn't belong to LotR or the Hobbit.

The Balrog wasn't bad.

Radagast The Brown · 03-12-2003, 04:13 PM

What do you mean 'the balrog wasn't bad'?

Ithilwin · 03-14-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
Personally, I would say the Balrog is the strongest. What do the other 'mooters think?

Ungoliant or the Balrog

Aragorn_of_the_west · 04-12-2003, 04:22 PM

I believe that the balrog of moria was the strongest "creature".
though I wouldnt call him a "creature"- I would rather call him a bieng' after all- he is a mia' and they are not "creatures"

Radagast The Brown · 04-12-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Aragorn_of_the_west
though I wouldnt call him a "creature"- I would rather call him a bieng' after all- he is a mia' and they are not "creatures"

Maybe but in its condition now, the balrog are defenately creatures.

Ruinel · 04-12-2003, 04:43 PM

#1) Tom Bombodill: he could sing them to death (he almost sung me to death when I read that part in FotR, BORING)
#2) Ungoliant (she even scared Melkor)
#3) Balrogs (after all, they are Maia)
#4) Glaurung (in his prime only, not before his armour was full wrought)
#5) Smaug
#6) Nazgul (as a group but not alone)
#7) Shelob (she was only wounded not killed by Samwise, and only because she under estimated him, no pun intended)
#8) The Eagles
#9) The Ents (they did not destroy Isengard "single-handedly", but as an army, together)
#10) Beorn

In this order.

Lalaith · 04-13-2003, 05:09 AM

Quote:

What do you mean 'the balrog wasn't bad'?

I meant that his powers are also very strong. Sorry if that was not clear enough.

Nerindel · 04-13-2003, 07:33 AM

Yes, yes I would have to say the Balrog too.
After all Balrog is Sindarin for 'power-terror' or 'demon of might'.
The Balrog was a maiar were as Shelob was only a descendant of a maiar.

(Ruinel- Shelob was blinded and stabbed by Sam and may have eventually died of her wounds, or of starvation caused by her inability to hunt while blind!)

(GW - shelob was nothing compared to Ungoliant

)

***Jonathan*** · 04-13-2003, 07:57 AM

Both the wizards and the balrogs are maiar. Does that mean that the wizards and the balrogs are equally powerful?
If that's so, could Saruman or any other wizard have beaten the balrog in Moria? Could the balrog have had the strenght to kill Saruman?

Off-topic:
Funny thing. Lalaith posted the statement "The balrog wasn't bad", and exactly one month later, she explains what she meant

Linaewen · 04-13-2003, 11:11 AM

Oh, why can't we have creatures from other books?

I say the Balrog for the reasons that Jonathan stated in the first post. Very convincing.

Quote:

Both the wizards and the balrogs are maiar. Does that mean that the wizards and the balrogs are equally powerful?

Apparently, Tom Bombadil may have been a Maia too. Could he have tackled the Balrog? Maybe, maybe not. Not all Maia have the same amount of power. The easiest example of this is that Saruman was more powerful than Gandalf.

Quote:

If that's so, could Saruman or any other wizard have beaten the balrog in Moria? Could the balrog have had the strenght to kill Saruman?

Probably (to the first question). For the reason stated above.

03-12-2003, 03:55 PM	#11
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I guess old Glaurung was more powerful than Smaug but well ... that doesn't belong to LotR or the Hobbit. The Balrog wasn't bad. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-12-2003, 04:13 PM	#12
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	What do you mean 'the balrog wasn't bad'? __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

04-13-2003, 07:33 AM	#18
Nerindel Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 146	Yes, yes I would have to say the Balrog too. After all Balrog is Sindarin for 'power-terror' or 'demon of might'. The Balrog was a maiar were as Shelob was only a descendant of a maiar. (Ruinel- Shelob was blinded and stabbed by Sam and may have eventually died of her wounds, or of starvation caused by her inability to hunt while blind!) (GW - shelob was nothing compared to Ungoliant ) __________________ Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red night fall! Éomer King of Rohan Aa'menealle nauva calen ar'malta Last edited by Nerindel : 04-13-2003 at 07:40 AM.

04-13-2003, 07:57 AM	#19
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Both the wizards and the balrogs are maiar. Does that mean that the wizards and the balrogs are equally powerful? If that's so, could Saruman or any other wizard have beaten the balrog in Moria? Could the balrog have had the strenght to kill Saruman? Off-topic: Funny thing. Lalaith posted the statement "The balrog wasn't bad", and exactly one month later, she explains what she meant __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

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03-11-2003, 04:39 PM	#2
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	The Balrog. Definitely. It's a MAIA for Eru's sake! __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

03-11-2003, 05:02 PM	#3
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I agree with Elf Girl. The dragon is strong, but not enough, and Shelob has no chance. She's so week near them!The balrog is the strongest. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-11-2003, 05:07 PM	#4
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	Tom Bombadil. Master, last as he was first, no-one ever caught him. And a vision in those wellies. Though he doesn't play away matches, of course...

03-11-2003, 05:13 PM	#5
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Actually, Ungoliant and Ancalagon the Black are both mentioned in LOTR. Maybe Glaurung, too. I would say Ungoliant. For rather obvious reasons. EDIT: As WF said, most impressive female character in Tolkien's works! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-11-2003, 05:33 PM	#7
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Well, Hoom, Hum, Hroom... Well, all of them are dead except Shelob, so I'd probably have to say her. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-11-2003, 05:58 PM	#9
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	I'll go for Bombadil. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

03-12-2003, 03:42 PM	#10
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Yeah, me too. And, Tom Bombadil is not a creature, as the wizards aren't. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

04-12-2003, 04:22 PM	#14
Aragorn_of_the_west Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Israel Posts: 56	I believe that the balrog of moria was the strongest "creature". though I wouldnt call him a "creature"- I would rather call him a bieng' after all- he is a mia' and they are not "creatures"

04-12-2003, 04:43 PM	#16
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	#1) Tom Bombodill: he could sing them to death (he almost sung me to death when I read that part in FotR, BORING) #2) Ungoliant (she even scared Melkor) #3) Balrogs (after all, they are Maia) #4) Glaurung (in his prime only, not before his armour was full wrought) #5) Smaug #6) Nazgul (as a group but not alone) #7) Shelob (she was only wounded not killed by Samwise, and only because she under estimated him, no pun intended) #8) The Eagles #9) The Ents (they did not destroy Isengard "single-handedly", but as an army, together) #10) Beorn In this order.