shelob

[Nilore]

Oh I thought that Shelob was another name for Ungoliant. It was made out like that anyway.

[Andúril]

Insidious Rex:
*snip*

and the spiders in africa can eat small dogs so it must have been a horrible experience for a child.

Huh? Where did you see/read this?

*Looks out for that escaped maltese-eating tarantula*

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Let's see... Giant Wolves maybe? Or Maiar in the form of Bats? Giant mutant Lizards that breath fire? Multi tentacled things in the water? Flying Beasts? Biting Flies with the red eye mark? Bees the size of a man's thumb?

Come on, what do you want, now?

Bats? Remind me where they were. For some reason im blanking out. And Im guessing he never got bit by a dragon in childhood though (if thats what you were meant by giant lizards). And all those other things you named were rather minor in comparison to how he portrays the various spiders again and again and again. Its obvious theres some real fear there for him. And my only point was that he translated this into his writing and rather well too. Ungoliant is horrifying. As is Shelob. And the bees and flies are incidental.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Andúril
Huh? Where did you see/read this?

*Looks out for that escaped maltese-eating tarantula*

Well I was exagerating for effect. What I meant was that the biggest spiders in Africa would be rather scary to a 4 year old child I would imagine. Especially if they crawl onto you and sink their fangs into your neck. But I dont know about dogs. Maybe puppies. Oh but there are some in South America that routinely eat birds and have been known to take baby monkees as prey. Yikes...

[Jonathan]

In the summers I use to feed a particular kind of spiders. Mostly I feed them with ants, because the are easy to catch. But sometimes when I get my hands on a big larva or something, I give it to the spiders.
It is interesting to see them wrap their web about the insects, making nice little cocoons...

I guess I have left the subject...
Well, my piont is that my interest in these spiders made me LOVE both Ungoliant and the Shelob.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Jonathan
In the summers I use to feed a particular kind of spiders. Mostly I feed them with ants, because the are easy to catch. But sometimes when I get my hands on a big larva or something, I give it to the spiders.
It is interesting to see them wrap their web about the insects, making nice little cocoons...

I guess I have left the subject...
Well, my piont is that my interest in these spiders made me LOVE both Ungoliant and the Shelob.

ok Jonathan now yer creeping me out *laugh* I had a horny toad once but it died.

Anyway speaking of ungoliant (Jonathan I know you and I have talked about this) but I was wondering what people thought about her creation. Was she simply a maiar who took the form of a giant spider and was evil or was she originally part of Melkor? I think Tolkien had a slighty different thing in mind when he created Ungoliant as a character. Its as if Melkor's hatred and hunger for all things light and good takes a form of its own in her. I think she was a spirit created by the dischord between the music made by Melkor and all the other valar originally that came down to earth as a maiar spirit.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't think Ungoliant was any part of Morgoth. I think she was a totally seperate evil unto herself. She helped him to kill the Two Trees for a price and steel the Silmarils, but when he wouldn't offer them up to her, she rose up against him, and was going to kill him. Only his crying out causing the Balrogs to come to his aid saved him. I think Ungoliant was an independent evil for hire.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I don't think Ungoliant was any part of Morgoth. I think she was a totally seperate evil unto herself. She helped him to kill the Two Trees for a price and steel the Silmarils, but when he wouldn't offer them up to her, she rose up against him, and was going to kill him. Only his crying out causing the Balrogs to come to his aid saved him. I think Ungoliant was an independent evil for hire.

Ok I think Im one of the few English majors in this place or something.... Ok but isnt it interesting that Melkor somehow is the only one that knows of her existance. And goes right to her dwelling when he wants to destroy the trees. And he stabs the trees and she consumes them. But she remains so hungry. And no matter what she consumes she cant be satisfied. And turns on Melkor in the end and tries to consume him. What a perfect symbol for hatred and jealous hunger consuming oneself completely Ungoliant is. And thats basically whats happened. Once he kills the trees and steals the jewels his fate has been sealed. There will be no more mercy for him. Its either world domination or destruction. So in effect thats the point where his hunger for all things light and good and his ravenous jealousy consumes HIM. And theres really nothing else like Ungoliant on earth. No sort of rouge evil maiar outside the vale of Melkor. All the others were turned by or created by Melkor originally. She was evil and hungry from the start. Why is that? Coincidence? Me thinks Ungoliant was as much a literary tool as Tom Bombadil was (oops did I just say Tom Bombadil? ) Otherwise there would be other Ungoliant like creatures around and she would fit in better.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I don't understand why I keep getting email notifications to this thread when I have never posted to it, but anyway, I agree with Wayfarer here. The great spiders of Middle-earth like Ungoliant and Shelob were maiar I believe, in spider form.

yes like the great eagles (Gwaihir etc) were maiar in eagle form

the way i understand it is that ungoliant gave birth to the great spiders,
one of whom ws shelob
as the great spiders dwindled, those that remained were forced to breed with lesser spiders, the descendants of which were the spiders of mirkwood
at the time of LOTR, shelob was the only remaining great spider
hence 'last child of Ungoliant'

someone correct me if i'm wrong