Soldiers horrifically abuse Iraqis

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
No I was not intentionally calling you an elitist because I did not read any post, just contributed a random ADD kid thought. Because I am a moron. Hmmm... I like living in America. We're all rich and stuff. We have a government that lets us be rich. But I dislike the majority of Americans because they love their country. That's such a silly thing, loving your county. Hmmm. I want join some little aboriginee (sp?) tribe somewhere where they have no currency, no school, and you just run around in loin cloths and hunt stuff. Ahhh... so fun. Of course you only live to be about 30 but in the simple life you can't really be wrong, as long as you're not really right either. I don't know. I don't take national pride or politics very seriously, I just want to be left alone. Maybe I'll start my own country, and I will be the only person in it. FWAAH!

The US and it's Constitution is what gives you the freedoms you enjoy - I think that is one very good reason for loving ones country and being patriotic. I can't understand people who don't like their countries.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
I don't think there's anything wrong with liking your country, as long as you don't hate people for their leaders hurting someone in your country (i.e. all these people hating muslims because some extremists blew up some people they didn't even know from the WTC), I mean it's terrible that people died from that and all but they're humans, and so are Muslims. I don't see why people get all uppety against the whole nation for a few of them killing some Americans I never knew just because they're Americans... I don't like people to die whether they're American or Slovegnian (sp?) or Russian or Muslim...

Where do you get the impression we hate muslims? There is one of the largest mosques in the country down the street from me - there are many muslims who live by me - they walk freedly down the streets in their headscarves and everything - they go to the park and all that. There aren't any attacks against them and most of the time you see them playing and hanging out with a large group of people of all ethnicities.

Maybe you have your head in the ground and only want to see the extremists.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Where do you get the impression we hate muslims? There is one of the largest mosques in the country down the street from me - there are many muslims who live by me - they walk freedly down the streets in their headscarves and everything - they go to the park and all that. There aren't any attacks against them and most of the time you see them playing and hanging out with a large group of people of all ethnicities.

Maybe you have your head in the ground and only want to see the extremists.

Don't judge me, and why the hurling of the evilness and assumptions? See, being reviled in something you do not understand (me, for example). Silly American!

I never said YOU hate muslims. I meant those people who have traits:
A- elitist
B-therefor looks down on anything 'unAmerican'.
I guess down in Florida with all our hicks we get a lot of 'Blow them f***in' Muslims up!' and such comments. Especially amongst the young and impressionable My Age peoples.
Oh and to save you the trouble: I am a f******* ****head ******* ** ** ** ***** *** ** ********** stupid hypocritical spoiled little brat, taking advantages of Americas oppurtunities. Weeeeeeeeeeeee

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
Don't judge me, and why the hurling of the evilness and assumptions? See, being reviled in something you do not understand (me, for example). Silly American!

Who is the one being silly? You are the one that spouted off about starting your own country and living in loin clothes.

I never said YOU hate muslims. I meant those people who have traits:
A- elitist
B-therefor looks down on anything 'unAmerican'.

here let me me remind you of what you posted..

as long as you don't hate people for their leaders hurting someone in your country (i.e. all these people hating muslims because some extremists blew up some people they didn't even know from the WTC), I mean it's terrible that people died from that and all but they're humans, and so are Muslims.

I'd like to know who "all these people" are that hate muslims.

I'm also wondering about how you feel about the NUMEROUS people who look down on anything AMERICAN?

I guess down in Florida with all our hicks we get a lot of 'Blow them f***in' Muslims up!' and such comments.

i guess that is florida - it's rare here though.

Especially amongst the young and impressionable My Age peoples.
Oh and to save you the trouble: I am a f******* ****head ******* ** ** ** ***** *** ** ********** stupid hypocritical spoiled little brat, taking advantages of Americas oppurtunities. Weeeeeeeeeeeee

Personally - I don't see what your age has to do with anything - unless you are 8 years old. if you are a teenageer - you should know what is right and wrong by now.

By the way - you sound just like Luthien Tinuviel - anyone remember her?

[Lizra]

I saw a picture of a prisoner's torture on another board. It was shocking! A real eye opener I'm afraid. I wouldn't have thought such things would be allowed....but there it was.
I wonder why photos are taken of this kind of thing? I do not understand mentally sick people who torture enemies though. Are there still some American citizens, or GI's being held captive, or missing? The release of these photos will not help them (if there are any).

[Sminty_Smeagol]

heh. 'All these people' as in the people down here in the only environment I know who hate muslims or anyone else who has offended anything American. Hate crime people. I think the 'you' was the generalized term, as in any particular individual. I never asked you to like me, but you don't have to make it so obvious that you don't, because it doesn't matter much to me. I'm too doped up on happy pills to care. If I saw you I think that I would run up to you and give you a reeeely big hug. And then lick your toes. You can't hate me, I'm short and squishy!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
I saw a picture of a prisoner's torture on another board. It was shocking! A real eye opener I'm afraid. I wouldn't have thought such things would be allowed....bBut there it is! I wonder why photos are taken of this kind of thing? I do not understand mentally sick people who torture enemies though. Are there still some American citizens, or GI's being held captive, or missing? The release of these photos will not help them (if there are any).

The pictures were taken by fellow soldiers to report to their superiors what was going on - it was basically to rat out the people who were doing these horrendus acts.

[Lizra]

So I guess the were lower rank. Man....What a pathetic situation. Perhaps I shall go crawl in my shell now.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
heh. 'All these people' as in the people down here in the only environment I know who hate muslims or anyone else who has offended anything American. Hate crime people. I think the 'you' was the generalized term, as in any particular individual. I never asked you to like me, but don't make it so obvious that you don't, because it doesn't matter much to me. I'm too doped up on happy pills to care. If I saw you I think that I would run up to you and give you a reeeely big hug. And then lick your toes.

I didn't say i hated you. i gave no indiction of like or dislike toward you as a person - I don't know you. I just think your attitude is rather narrowminded. As you said - you only know Florida. I don't imagine there are a lot of muslims where you live.

It's funny how you been talking about America and Muslims - when French news just had how 120 jewish graves were just vandalized in france. A Kewish school bus there not long ago was attacked, they have had repeated attacks on jews there. In one part of france students at a jewsish school have to take off their yamukas for fear of being attacked on the way home. As a matter of fact it is so bad - that there is a conference right now that Colin Powel is at discussing the increasing violence against Jews in Europe. So - how many muslims have been attacked and killed because of being muslim in America? After 9/11 there were some - one in particular. But it is not rampant and I live among many muslims here.

Oh and I do hate the extremist muslims - I hate the fanatical clerics in Iran who want to prevent democracy there - who outlawed the reformists from running. I hate Bin Ladin and his followers.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Well people are disgusting. It's human nature. Just because other people do it doesn't give us a reason to. Anything like that is wrong. I imagine my point isn't getting across - I just don't appreciate it when people act like Americans can do no wrong and justify any wrongdoing with 'well they did it worse!' or 'yeah get them dirty muslims!' and such. Hmmphh.... I never said all of America is like that but we do have some pretty nasty people. I would know. I don't think America is any worse than other countries particularly. we're all flawed.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
Well people are disgusting. It's human nature. Just because other people do it doesn't give us a reason to. Anything like that is wrong. I imagine my point isn't getting across - I just don't appreciate it when people act like Americans can do no wrong and justify any wrongdoing with 'well they did it worse!' or 'yeah get them dirty muslims!' and such. Hmmphh.... I never said all of America is like that but we do have some pretty nasty people. I would know. I don't think America is any worse than other countries particularly. we're all flawed.

We are all flawed - we're humans - but that doesn't mean that America isn't better than a lot of other countries just because we have some problems. The problems you bring out are actually rare. A lot of it has to do that it's sensational news - but a crime is a crime.

As for who we should get - we should get the people who want to destroy america - which we are doing. They just happen to be muslim. If it was sweden who had peopel ram planes into the Twin Towers - we'd be at war with Sweden right now. it isn't a racial issue - not everything is a racial issue - it's just that that is who the terrorists were - muslims.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I don't see why we have to kill innocent people though. I think the world leaders who are angry at eachother should just go in a boxing rink. Or sit down to a game of chess. I don't see why we have to kill eachothers' humans... just get it over with themselves. I would never want to kill someone I had never met.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The US and it's Constitution is what gives you the freedoms you enjoy - I think that is one very good reason for loving ones country and being patriotic. I can't understand people who don't like their countries.

I could take a guess why people don't like their own country they aren't ignorant (its rather sad how many American take things for granted and are so ignorant) , they see the corruption and greed, they see the truth.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Ettt now you're in for it love

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
I could take a guess why people don't like their own country they aren't ignorant (its rather sad how many American take things for granted and are so ignorant) , they see the corruption and greed, they see the truth.

It's not ignorance - and it's equally ignorant to see only corruption and greed. It's the ones who think that America is all bad and only see the bad things who are the ones who generally take things for granted. Also - seeing greed and corruption isn't the truth - it's only a smll picture of the whole. It is the ones who see the many good things - as well as the bad things - who are patriotic. But just because there are bad things - doesn't mean that it outweighs the good. And I do believe the majority of things the USA has done - has been good and positive throughout it's history.

If you think I'm ignorant because I am proud of American and I'm patriotic- then you are wrong. I see the good and the bad - but that's not going to prevent me from celebrating the numerous good things or celebrating 4th of July or holding my head up high.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
I don't see why we have to kill innocent people though.

Are we purposely killing innocent people? Do you know how many innocent people died to destroy hitler? Do you think the world would have been a better place if we just said "oh we can't risk innocent lives - so we'll just let Hitler go about his business"?

I think the world leaders who are angry at eachother should just go in a boxing rink. Or sit down to a game of chess. I don't see why we have to kill eachothers' humans... just get it over with themselves. I would never want to kill someone I had never met.

Idealism. It's always great to have such views - too bad they aren't achored in facts. Do you talk about people behind their back? Are you always 100% always nice to everyone? Do you never get into arguments? Is everyone in your school just perfect? If the answer to that last question is no - then how can you not understand.

Not all countries or people want peace. I suggest you right to bin Ladin if you have any problems with what the US does cna explain your position - I'm sure he'll go and play a game with George Bush.

If there weren't so many problems in the Middle East right now - we wouldn't be there fighting a war. But unless you want the US destroyed by the Muslim fanatis like Osama Bin Ladin - we have to take the war there and change the Middle East into a more free society. if we don't - you better start looking Burkas now.

[FoolofaTook]

That's absolutely horrible how those prisoners are being treated. I know it was only just a few soldiers who did it, and it will probably not be repeated (and if it does, it'll be covered up), but I do find it ironic. The Americans went in there to (supposedly) remove a brutal dictator who tortured his prisoners, and had no compassion towards other human beings. And they end up torturing prisoners, and showing no compassion towards them.

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Oh and I do hate the extremist muslims - I hate the fanatical clerics in Iran who want to prevent democracy there - who outlawed the reformists from running. I hate Bin Ladin and his followers.

I think all forms of fanaticism are wrong. Especially of the religious variety.

Originally posted by jerseydevil
we should get the people who want to destroy america - which we are doing. They just happen to be muslim. If it was sweden who had peopel ram planes into the Twin Towers - we'd be at war with Sweden right now. it isn't a racial issue - not everything is a racial issue - it's just that that is who the terrorists were - muslims.

What does Iraq have to do with the Twin Towers incident?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by FoolofaTook
That's absolutely horrible how those prisoners are being treated. I know it was only just a few soldiers who did it, and it will probably not be repeated (and if it does, it'll be covered up),

How do you know it will be covered up? it could have been covered up this time too.

but I do find it ironic. The Americans went in there to (supposedly) remove a brutal dictator who tortured his prisoners, and had no compassion towards other human beings. And they end up torturing prisoners, and showing no compassion towards them.

You see - it's NOT THE POLICY if the US that brutalized the prisoners though - it was a few soldiers who are now being severely disciplined for their actions who took it on themselves. I love how you say "America went in there and started brutalizing them".

The Americans went in there...And they end up torturing prisoners, and showing no compassion towards them.

What about the THOUSANDS who have been showing compassion to the prisoners and to the Iraqis? They don't count?

I think all forms of fanaticism are wrong. Especially of the religious variety.

Yes - fanaticism is wrong - if it infringes on others rights.

What does Iraq have to do with the Twin Towers incident?

The Middle East needs to be changed - Husein was not going to be contained forever. If we can bring democracy to iraq - which is a very good possibilty we will succeed - then the Middle East will most likely become more free. There are already countries in the area moving toward democracy.

We went to war in Bosnia for a lot less than what was going in Iraq in terms of the brutality. The difference was - Hussein was doing it behind closed doors - in Bosnia they had the torture and camps in the open.

Maybe you missed the mass graves and so forth. It was also only a matter of time that Hussein got biological and chemical weapons - if he didn't already have them. He was funnelling money to terrorist groups and it was something that should have been done in 1991. I supported Clinton taking action against Iraq - and I supported Bush going into Iraq. The problem with Iraq was that the Oil and Food program was being abused - as we clearly know now - and the Middle East fanatics were using Iraq as a flash point. Husseun is only ONE battle in the world war on terrorism.

[FoolofaTook]

First of all I didn't say "America went in there and started brutalizing them". I said "And they end up torturing prisoners, and showing no compassion towards them.". But I didn't mean to say that ALL of the soldiers are like that. I meant that I find that incident ironic.

And I know Saddam Hussein was a terrible dictator, but he posed no threat to the US. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, he had NO links to Osama Bin Laden. In fact, Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein. Hussein should've been removed, but the US should've never went after him without the consent of the UN. And if their reason for removing him was because he was a brutal dictator why not remove all the other brutal dictators around the world...I've heard no talk of that.

America doesn't exactly have the greatest foreign policy. No one country has the right to police the world, no matter how rich they are.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by FoolofaTook
First of all I didn't say "America went in there and started brutalizing them". I said "And they end up torturing prisoners, and showing no compassion towards them.". But I didn't mean to say that ALL of the soldiers are like that. I meant that I find that incident ironic.

You said "And they end up torturing prisoners..." Since you last mentioned "Americans" - grammatically - "They" must refer to "Americans". If you meant the soldiers - you should have said "And these soldiers ended up torturing the prisoners".

And I know Saddam Hussein was a terrible dictator, but he posed no threat to the US. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, he had NO links to Osama Bin Laden. In fact, Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein.

First - he did pose a threat to the US, second he was supporting terrorism, third all the world, including the UN felt he had chemical and biological weapons. ALL world intelligence felt this - even Clinton's adminstration came on the news before the war and stated that all evidence pointed to him having it. Asfor links to Osama Bin Ladin - only the media kept trying to say that. Bush repeatedly said that their was no clear evidence that he had any. The thing is - an exmple of why Hussein should have been taken out is demonstrated in Indonesia. Al Qaeda is now linkin gup with their former enemies. They are practicing "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". I seriously doubt -given the chance - that Osama Bin Ladin would give up chemical and biological weapons after Dr Death got done with developing them. Do you really think that Hussein had that woman scientist in his government for health reasons?

Hussein should've been removed, but the US should've never went after him without the consent of the UN.

Why? The UN doesn't dictate what the US should do to protect itself. There were 17 resolutions that Iraq refused to adhere to - based on the terms of the original Gulf War - that war technically never ended because Hussein did not uphold his part of the agreement. We didn't even have to discuss anything with the UN.

And if their reason for removing him was because he was a brutal dictator why not remove all the other brutal dictators around the world...I've heard no talk of that.

It would be nice to - but you know - North Korea has nukes now. Something that after that happened people aregued - why wasn't something done before. Well - short of going to war with them - what were we to do? We went into Iraq BEFORE Hussein coudl do anything - and the US gets blamed - we don't go into North Korea and we get blamed. Funny- people seem to want it both ways. You have to pick your fights. I think the going after Hussein is much more important politically than going after some of the other dictators.

America doesn't exactly have the greatest foreign policy. No one country has the right to police the world, no matter how rich they are.

Becuase of the inaction of the world - they have put us in this position. Let me ask you - if that's the case - who is currently keeping North Korea from invading South Korea? Who stood up to the Soviet Union all those Years during the Cold War and kept them from spreading out through Western Europe?

As for foreign policy - look at who caused the problems in the Middle East and who now is trying to clean it up. Look who created World War II. I can think of many other countries who had a far worse foreign policy than the US - but now has to always clean up the mess they made.