Soldiers horrifically abuse Iraqis

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Spock
DUH???? I'D LOVE THEM TO PHOTOGRAPH OUR CAPTIVES INSTEAD OF BURNING THEIR BODIES, HANGING THEM FROM BRIDGES AND BEHEADING THEM

The problem is, we cannot afford to behave in the same (or equivalent) manner if we really want to accomplish our mission there. We HAVE to be the 'good guys'! Even if it hurts.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Lets lay it out for the little kiddies, shall we?


The Geneva Convention is a treaty designed to safeguard the treatment of Soldiers in captivity.

America signed the Geneva Convention.

The Geneva Convention does not address terrorists.

The Iraqi Army is, in fact, an Army, not a terrorist group.

Americans have abused Iraqi Soldiers in captivity.



Thats it. Thats as fair and as unbiased as it can be put. Now, for the love of God, someone actually argue me on these above points.

Oh, and SGH - the photos that shocked the world were of IRAQI SOLDIERS, from the regular Iraqi Army, making them, well Soldiers. No difference...

Do you understand that there is no Iraqi army at this time? DO YOU!

[QueenAnnesLace]

Get a clue

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally posted by QueenAnnesLace
And i"ll second it-What Iraqi army???Maybe then but not anymore.

A soldier is still a soldier, even if, after his capture, his army is destroyed. He still has the same rights. Are you really telling me that because you think the prisoners were not soldiers, its OK to beat and sexually abuse them??? Surely not!!!

[Spock]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
[B]
The Geneva Convention is a treaty designed to safeguard the treatment of Soldiers in captivity. FONT=century gothic]BINGO! THEY'RE NOT SOLDIERS[/FONT]

America signed the Geneva Convention. YES AND THOSE IN CAPTIVITY NEVER DID SO DO NOT DESERVE BETTER TREATMENT THAN THEY GIVE OUR TROOPS

The Geneva Convention does not address terrorists. HOORAY!

The Iraqi Army is, in fact, an Army, not a terrorist group. HELLO? THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE....REMEMBER running away.

Americans have abused Iraqi Soldiers in captivity. ABUSE CAN BE SUBJECTIVE...TAKING PHOTOS OF PEOPLE YOU CAN'T RECOGNIZE IS HARDLY ABUSE..EMBARRASING YES, ILLEGAL, POSSIBLY, HORRIFIC. NOT A CHANCE.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Well, with that post, I was actually joking. Noting the Smilies??

But, seriously, if you draw a sword in the normal forum as a regular entmooter, one would hope you wouldn't run for Admin land when I draw mine.

Oh, but didn't you see my smilies? I rest my case.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Oh, but didn't you see my smilies? I rest my case.

Oh yeah, because you "casual" mention of punishment and Admin powers was soo nessecary to the argument.

[Spock]

Originally posted by Valandil
The problem is, we cannot afford to behave in the same (or equivalent) manner if we really want to accomplish our mission there. We HAVE to be the 'good guys'! Even if it hurts.

SORRY, but hurting is far different from dying. I'm not for that.

[QueenAnnesLace]

Did someone have a bad pornographic experience?Torture??uncalled for but hardly torture.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Oh yeah, because you "casual" mention of punishment and Admin powers was soo nessecary to the argument.

<sigh>

[Spock]

You know I've been trying to have a good pornographic experience for years without success.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Well cats and kittens, I'm going to the pub, but its been grand. I went from an Ening to an Elven Warrior on about 45 minutes. I'll check back in to the moot tommorow.

Ah, the joys of over emotional Americans trying to defend the undefendable. Ahhh.

Cheers

[Valandil]

Originally posted by QueenAnnesLace
Did someone have a bad pornographic experience?Torture??uncalled for but hardly torture.

In their culture, it could be considered that. We must send the message to our prison guards that it was WAY wrong and it BEST not happen again!

[QueenAnnesLace]

Going to the Pub?I would've guessed you had just returned from it.

[Spock]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
, I'm going to the pub, but its been grand.
Ah, the joys of over emotional Americans trying to defend the undefendable. Ahhh.

....a a respite from the stereotypical Irish while he refreshes his glass. A pint for me if you will and all will look brighter.

[Spock]

Originally posted by Valandil
In their culture, it could be considered that. We must send the message to our prison guards that it was WAY wrong and it BEST not happen again!

V-I'm with you about sending the message, we just differ slightly on how and why.
It may help too, to remember that those involved were not regular military police units and as it appears so far, were not given proper training. That's not a pass, it's just a filter to look at the events in their proper light.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Spock
SORRY, but hurting is far different from dying. I'm not for that.

Some of our soldiers WILL die there. If we are heavy-handed, what we are trying to do will not 'take'... and those deaths will be in vain. If we conduct ourselves according to the principles we espouse, and hope for them to adopt... our troops who die will be securing a better Iraq and a better world - with a safer USA.

Think back to our own American Revolution over 200 years ago. Heavy-handedness by the British was their downfall. Sentiment for the rebellion grew from under it. Their troops lost our people... who only a few years had considered themselves British subject - because they didn't take care to treat our people with respect.

It would be a shame if we fail in the same way in these efforts 225 years later.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Well cats and kittens, I'm going to the pub, but its been grand. I went from an Ening to an Elven Warrior on about 45 minutes. I'll check back in to the moot tommorow.

Ah, the joys of over emotional Americans trying to defend the undefendable. Ahhh.

Cheers

Ah the irritation of uninformed non-Americans who seem to think they dictate what the US can and can not do.

[The Gaffer]

Thanks for the afternoon theatre. Enjoy your pint, FMcL

You can argue "it's all right to do it to them because they did it to us" if you like as long as you don't mind torturing and/or killing innocent people.

A question to those who were arguing with Fenir, what do you think of Valandil's view?

[Spock]

We're not being heavy handed to the majority of the citizens of Iraq. I say we should be heavy handed to those who would kill us.