Narnia and Middle-Earth

[Elvengirl]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
when Jack died, it was like an axe-blow to the trunk...' [/B]

Just wondering...... Who was Jack?

[Rían]

Sorry, I should have put a footnote - C. S. Lewis went by "Jack" to his friends.

[galadriel]

With a name like "Clive", who wouldn't?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Tolkien disliked Lewis's new friend Charles Williams, who was fairly heavily into the occult (and whom Tolkien may have considered not up to the same intellectual standard)

Really? Defing 'occult' as...?

[Finrod Felagund]

In C.S. Lewis' sci-fi trilogy he mentions that if people want to know more about "Numinor and the true west" to read pending work by Tolkien.

[b.banner]

i thinki it would be cool. but no one can go into middle earth like thye can go into narnia .so i f they were connected the wouldnt people be able to go into middle earth too?

[Willow Oran]

As tempting as it is to try and mix Narnia and Middle Earth they tend to clash. Narnia has too much allegory mixed with childish innocnece to mix well with Middle Earth. And Middle Earth is much too openly serious to fit well with Narnia.

[Lefty Scaevola]

A few of the lines in JRRTs uncomleted epic poem, the Lay of Leithian, had some collaberation by Lewis.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Should'nt Narnia supposed to be somewhere beyond Mordor? I personally think it should, although it's by different authors [after all, C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien were best friends (so I've heard)]? Actually, they have some of the same place names, such as the Northern Wastes. Wouldn't that be interesting?!

n00b! Your logic is flawed.

I've not read either since I originally posted this, but as I have an excellent memory when it comes to these things, it no longer makes any sense. I have severe problems with crossovers, and they bother me now. But there's more to it than this. One has to squint real hard to make the borders of allegory and epic disappear between the two.

I also would like to point out the first sentence, particularly the first three words, a grammatical error.

[caboose007]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

n00b! Your logic is flawed.

I've not read either since I originally posted this, but as I have an excellent memory when it comes to these things, it no longer makes any sense. I have severe problems with crossovers, and they bother me now. But there's more to it than this. One has to squint real hard to make the borders of allegory and epic disappear between the two.

I also would like to point out the first sentence, particularly the first three words, a grammatical error.

Damn you got there before me but still I've read both the Narnia and Middle-earth books and they are completely different from one another.

I mean Narnia is placed in a cupboard for a start and that cupboard with Narnia in is on Earth where an even bigger realm holds them all and set during WWII. It confused me to the brink of my youth. Middle-earth however is set as a prehistoric Britain and Northern Europe as though in another Universe.

Also Elves would have to exist in Narnia along with Sauron if it was on Middle-earth. Elves travelled from the East along Middle-earth and many remained behind on the road.

Oh yeah. MEN DON'T EXIST IN NARNIA! thats why all the talking animals, yes talking animals, get all excited because four humans were destined to rule Narnia.

Seriously the whole concept of putting these two worlds together would be flawed to the point that everyones heads would explode from the sheer stupidness of it.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by caboose007

Oh yeah. MEN DON'T EXIST IN NARNIA! thats why all the talking animals, yes talking animals, get all excited because four humans were destined to rule Narnia.

Well, they didn't exist in the country of Narnia, but they certainly existed in Archenland, Calormen and the islands during the reign of the White Witch.

Seriously the whole concept of putting these two worlds together would be flawed to the point that everyones heads would explode from the sheer stupidness of it.

Starting with Professor JRR, who hated the Narnia books.

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by galadriel

With a name like "Clive", who wouldn't?

He named himself after - I'm not making this up! - the family dog.

In any case, I believe that the cosmologies are somewhat mutually exclusive. While at first I thought that the multiverse of Narnia (shown as one of many parallel worlds in The Magician's Nephew) would allow for Middle Earth to be, as it were, 'folded in' with those. However, upon further consideration I don't think Middle Earth would really work in such a context.

Oh, sure, there a few minor points of congruity - both worlds begin with music, and both of them have 'heaven' across the seas in the west. But that's about it. Middle Earth is a singular, specially-created world - it is presented as the first and only of it's kind, a thing of wonder even Melkor who has traversed the empty void. If there were other worlds adjoining it, it would seem very odd that even the Valar were not in on the joke. Even more, I don't think Middle Earth could countenance the idea of visitors from another universe - which is practically a staple of the Narnia series, which as pointed out has Humans existing only as migrants from Earth.

I don't think they're actually that compatible after all, to wit, the strain of trying to connect the two worlds would probably shatter them both.

In an unrelated matter, C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy presents the character of Merlin (yes, that Merlin) as being the last surviving descendant of Atlantis, which in that book is also named Numenor.

Make of that what you will.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

In an unrelated matter, C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy presents the character of Merlin (yes, that Merlin) as being the last surviving descendant of Atlantis, which in that book is also named Numenor.

Make of that what you will.

I think that was a direct tribute to Tolkien, who was reading LoTR to the Inklings at the time.

Doesn't Ransom say something along the lines of "more of the history of Numenor will be revealed"? i.e. it's only been mentioned in passing by Tolkien.

[me9996]

I once brought this up...
It was met quickly with the responce that Middle Earth was ment to be earth in times forgotten and Narnia is ment to be another world alltogether.

So no, they can't be the same world, sorry.

[The Sasquatch of Fangorn]

but it would still be cool

[Feredir]

Troll's Bane,
I think that Arda (Tolkien's world) and Narnia are 2 separate worlds. I have seen and made a plethora of maps of Arda, although I have not (YET) read the Narnia series, and nowhere is there a place called Narnia. It is not a Sindarin word (although it is similar to Nurn, a region in southern Mordor).