Using LoTR elements in own writings

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Study other languages first, I recommend. Familiarity with at least the basic lay-out of more than one language would help a lot with the construction of one's own language.

what kind of langiages did you have in mind? like Tolkien's and some other fantasy writers??

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

As a random comment in the spirit of this thread, there was a character named "Moria" in Robert Jordan's book A Path of Daggers.

thats very interesting..i wonder if i can actually keep that horse name i was talking about...

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc Brandybuck

What if someone was writing a story in todays world about a character who is obsessed with Tolkien and his work, and calls his horse Shadowfax, and knows Elvish? Would there be a problem then?

hmmm thats difficult very difficult...i dunno i suppose...what do you think mods? anyone??

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

As a random comment in the spirit of this thread, there was a character named "Moria" in Robert Jordan's book A Path of Daggers.

That reminds me how the sci-fi series Babylon 5 had a bunch of fella's calling themselves Rangers, a character named Lorien and an evil place called Zah'dum. But then again Strazinski, the writer, did on one occasion refer to himself as the 'Tolkien of science-fiction', if I'm not mistaken. (I even recall an old entmoot-thread on the comparison.)

Originally Posted by Meriadoc Brandybuck

What if someone was writing a story in todays world about a character who is obsessed with Tolkien and his work, and calls his horse Shadowfax, and knows Elvish? Would there be a problem then?

I must admit I wouldn't know. I suppose it will depend on how much detail and Tolkien-elements you eventually use. If I was writing for a living and found myself writing something like that, I'd check with my editor to absolutely be sure.

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

so with all these authors using names like "moria" and others...do you think i'd still get away with using Valandil as a horse's name?

[Earniel]

I don't think one horse name is going to cause much trouble.

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I don't think one horse name is going to cause much trouble.

alright cool...how many names do you think someone could use before they got sued?

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

That reminds me how the sci-fi series Babylon 5 had a bunch of fella's calling themselves Rangers, a character named Lorien and an evil place called Zah'dum. But then again Strazinski, the writer, did on one occasion refer to himself as the 'Tolkien of science-fiction', if I'm not mistaken. (I even recall an old entmoot-thread on the comparison.)

I'm pretty sure that was intentional. Wikipedia had something about it, but I can't find it now. But it mentioned, for example, that someone plunged into an abyss in that Zah'dum place, and then later resurrected. Hmm...sound like anyone's favorite pipeweed-smoking wizard?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Tamuril Sirfalas

alright cool...how many names do you think someone could use before they got sued?

I suppose that's something to be judged case by case.

But personally I think, that if you're trying to rip off as much source material as you can without being sued, you're approaching orginal fiction the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Curubethion

I'm pretty sure that was intentional. Wikipedia had something about it, but I can't find it now. But it mentioned, for example, that someone plunged into an abyss in that Zah'dum place, and then later resurrected. Hmm...sound like anyone's favorite pipeweed-smoking wizard?

Yeah, you're probably right. I still think he went a leeetle overboard with it.

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

[QUOTE=Eärniel]I suppose that's something to be judged case by case.

But personally I think, that if you're trying to rip off as much source material as you can without being sued, you're approaching orginal fiction the wrong way.

no no no im not trying to rip Tolkien off. i was just curious. i have already started making up my own language and its going pretty well actually. i would not rip him off ...its an insult to his memory

[Earniel]

Then I misunderstood you. Apologies.

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Then I misunderstood you. Apologies.

its alright im not blaming you or anything i would think that too if i hadn't typed it.

[Huorn]

I write as a hobby. There is a remote possibility my stuff could get published. The closest to get to using Tolkien elements is to say that the person in the book is a fan of Tolkien. She finds herself in another world that is obviously not Tolkien's, even though her mind tries to make comparisions because this planet had short bearded folk and walking tree creatures. I don't specifically mention Tolkien's creatures, but it is inferred that is what the main character is thinking. It is apparent right away that these beings are not Tolkien Dwarves or Ents.

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Entwife_Oak

I write as a hobby. There is a remote possibility my stuff could get published. The closest to get to using Tolkien elements is to say that the person in the book is a fan of Tolkien. She finds herself in another world that is obviously not Tolkien's, even though her mind tries to make comparisions because this planet had short bearded folk and walking tree creatures. I don't specifically mention Tolkien's creatures, but it is inferred that is what the main character is thinking. It is apparent right away that these beings are not Tolkien Dwarves or Ents.

hmm very interesting...you should make your own thread and post it, get some feedback...its nice to have you back!

[Curubethion]

Slightly different topic, but...
What are everyone's thoughts on making veiled references to literary characters? For example: if you happen to have a halfling race, and you mention a pair of unusually tall halflings popping up in an inn, as minor characters. Most LOTR readers would recognize Merry and Pippin look-alikes, but you never actually put Merry or Pippin into the story.

[Earniel]

Those can be real fun, if used properly, and sparingly IMO. And I can think of at least one published author who I can readily see using that technique.

[IronParrot]

Property rights issues aside, I think there's a very reasonable tendency to gravitate towards Tolkien's languages when it comes to naming people, places and things. Given Tolkien's background, it's no surprise to me that he's the only high fantasy author I can immediately think of whose constructed languages (and nomenclature) make sense, and have a feeling of consistency to them. And you'll notice that when it came to the Rohirrim, he borrowed most of the names and language directly from Old English, which made sense considering the kind of society he was depicting. And George R.R. Martin's names are a very limited departure from Middle English (and its continental counterparts of the period), which makes sense because A Song of Ice and Fire is modelled after the War of the Roses.

Obviously, don't steal. But do acknowledge that even if you go off inventing your own thing, you're following certain principles that were likely inspired by somebody - even if it's as broad as how Tolkien used consonants inflected at the front of the mouth for the Elves to make them seem light and flowing, and lots of hacking/coughing glottal sounds for the Orcs to make them seem, well, dirty.

And please, for the love of God, go easy on the apostrophes.

Originally Posted by Curubethion

What are everyone's thoughts on making veiled references to literary characters? For example: if you happen to have a halfling race, and you mention a pair of unusually tall halflings popping up in an inn, as minor characters. Most LOTR readers would recognize Merry and Pippin look-alikes, but you never actually put Merry or Pippin into the story.

Is it clever, or does it make a point? If not, don't do it. This happens more often in literature (across all genres) than you'd think.

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by IronParrot

And please, for the love of God, go easy on the apostrophes.

Lol. You sound like a Robert Jordan reader who's suffered through Rand al'Thor, Nynaeve al'Meara, ta'veren...you get the idea.

[IronParrot]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

Lol. You sound like a Robert Jordan reader who's suffered through Rand al'Thor, Nynaeve al'Meara, ta'veren...you get the idea.

Very acute. I think I quit after seven.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by IronParrot

And please, for the love of God, go easy on the apostrophes.

A good advice, that I think may be repeated one more time.

In the light of property rights and copyright, I thought this link may be interesting, explaining some of the common misconceptions that go around: 10 myths about copyright