Right to Privicy - Page 2

jerseydevil · 08-21-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
you have to adimit that something that was written over 200 years ago isnt allways valid.

Well the people of the United States decides what's valid and not valid in OUR Constituion. And it would be impossible for 2/3 of Congress to pass an Amendment to repeal the 2nd Amendment - then to have it go to the president for his approval - then for it to go to the 50 states and get 2/3 of them to agree to it. The US Constitution is the supreme law of America. NO LAW can be made either by the federal, state or local governments that infringes on the Constitution. The Supreme court can overthrow any law that passes if it is determined it is unconstitutional. You don't have a written Constitution like the US that protects your freedoms.

Quote:

The way i see the right to privacy is like a school trip. On a school trip the teachers allways say you can stay up if you all behave. Unforntally someone allways misbehaves and spoils it for the rest of us. This is like life in many ways. If we could all behave we could all have the right to privacy but some people just wont and spoil it for the rest of us.

I dont think this would be abused how often is there a situation so sever it would require a whole town to be searched?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

BY the way - that quote is going around a lot - because our freedoms are being eroded slowly in the name of "the war on terrorism".

Sween · 08-21-2002, 02:54 PM

Uve a point and maybe it would be abused but if losing a bit of privacy and having the discomfot and anoyance of losing privacy could stop things like 9/11 and what happened to jessica and holly isnt it a small price to pay?

I myself am not that fussed i have no illegal things going on in my life (well nothing serious a bit of drive by knoming) and should'nt we not fear if we have nothing to hide?

jerseydevil · 08-21-2002, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Uve a point and maybe it would be abused but if losing a bit of privacy and having the discomfot and anoyance of losing privacy could stop things like 9/11 and what happened to jessica and holly isnt it a small price to pay?

I myself am not that fussed i have no illegal things going on in my life (well nothing serious a bit of drive by knoming) and should'nt we not fear if we have nothing to hide?

I'm not doing anything illegal either - but I'm not going to let cops or anyone else in my house without a warrant,

You give up a little freedom and before you know it you have none. America's freedoms and Bill of Rights was put into place because of the abuses that the english had done to the colonists. Searches and seizures without warrants was a huge one.

NJ even wants to make "consentual searches" illegal. This is where the cops stop a car for some traffic violation - but then ask if they can search your car. We have a Constitutional right to say no to the cops - but then they threaten that if you don't comply that they'll tow your car and waste at least 4 hours of your time. Most people end up complying - so New Jersey is going to make that type of search completely illegal.

Maybe you should watch or read 1984 and Farenheit 451 to see the abuses of power. You may be willing to give up your freedoms - but I'm not.

Sween · 08-21-2002, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil

I'm not doing anything illegal either - but I'm not going to let cops or anyone else in my house without a warrant,

You give up a little freedom and before you know it you have none. America's freedoms and Bill of Rights was put into place because of the abuses that the english had done to the colonists. Searches and seizures without warrants was a huge one.

NJ even wants to make "consensual searches" illegal. This is where the cops stop a car for some traffic violation - but then ask if they can search your car. We have a Constitutional right to say no to the cops - but then they threaten that if you don't comply that they'll tow your car and waste at least 4 hours of your time. Most people end up complying - so New Jersey is going to make that type of search completely illegal.

Maybe you should watch or read 1984 and Farenheit 451 to see the abuses of power. You may be willing to give up your freedoms - but I'm not.

I guess im just not that fussed im a quite open person so i dont really care. New jersey sounds like great fun been able to say no to policemen yeah thats safe. Tell me what is the crime rate like over in new jersey?

BeardofPants · 08-21-2002, 06:58 PM

My feeling is, that even if the police could manage to get their evil way, and do mass searches, it still wouldn't help prevent these crimes, because they're understaffed, and undertrained. Can you imagine a police state with untrained imbeciles just waltzing into peoples homes?

jerseydevil · 08-21-2002, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween

I guess im just not that fussed im a quite open person so i dont really care. New jersey sounds like great fun been able to say no to policemen yeah thats safe. Tell me what is the crime rate like over in new jersey?

Why can't you say no to a policeman? They don't have supreme power and they can't search your car without a warrant in the US. Currently they can with your consent - which I would not give.

I went down to the police station and argued with the cops about being pulled over last year. At first I called them and they said i could come down if I wanted - which I did. They probably didn't think I would. They claimed I crossed the center line. Basically they only stopped me to check if I was drinking - they used that as an excuse. When I was talking to the chief at the station he told me that law abiding citizens were in bed at descent hours (it was 2:00am and I was coming back from the movies). He also repeatedly called me "chief" in a condescending manner, telling me I'm the boss. Of course the public is the boss - WE pay their salaries and they're enforcing the laws that WE put into place. I wrote a letter and sent it to a bunch of papers. The Plainsboro mayor read it and called me and wanted to know what happened. That was the 3rd time I had been pulled over for just driving late at night within a 2 year period. The other time they claimed I had a taillight out. I was on my way to Indiana and didn't check until I got there - it was about 12:30am. It was working fine of course. The other time I was pulled over was for having a fog light out - I was coming back from my cousin's and it was about 1:30am.

I guess we value individual freedom more in the US. There is a huge backlash in some communities about police surveillance cameras, One town in NJ had to take them down because of the outrage.

This is the crime stats for Plainsboro -

Quote:

• All crime rates are based on permanent, year-round populations. Comparisons of crime rates between individual municipalities should not be made without giving major consideration to the volume of seasonal population, transients, tourists, and labor forces.

• All offenses are recorded in the municipality of occurrence, regardless of the outside investigative agency, i.e., Federal, State, County, College Campus Police.

.................................................. .......................Middlesex
...........................................Plainsb oro........... County Totals
.......................................1999....... 2000.........1999........2000

Violent Crime......................4...........19......... ..1,820......1,832
Non-Violent Crime..............215.......254.........18,104... ..18,031
Crime Rate/1000................13.9........13.5............27 .8........26.5
Violent Crime Rate/1000.....0.3...........0.9..............2.5....... ...2.4
Non-Violent Crime Rate/k...13.7........12.6............25.3.........24.0

Violent Crime
Murder................................-..............-..............11...........12
Rape..................................-..............3.............89............95
Robbery..............................-..............6...........616...........591
Aggravated Assault..............4............10........1,104. .......1,134

Non-Violent Crime
Burglary........................... 24............41........3,325........3,232
Larceny............................180.........193 .......12,846......12,878
Motor Vehicle Theft...............1...........20........1,933... .....1,921
Arson..................................3.......... ...8..........110...........116
Domestic Violence...............97..........102.......5,297 ........5,140
Bias Crime...........................2............2.... .........73.............58

Police Empoyee Data
Male..................................29.......... .30.......1,479.........1,507
Female................................2........... ..2...........45.............49
Civilian..............................11.......... ..11.........407............400
Total.................................42.......... ..43......1,931..........1,956

Demographic Info
Population...................20,215............... ...........750,162
Area in Square Miles............11.80...........................3 11.00
Density/Square Mile........1,713.1..........................2,412 .1
Character.....................Suburban

New Jersey Municipal-County Offense & Demographic Data - Middlesex County

New Jersey Crime Reports and Statistics

Sween · 08-22-2002, 05:34 AM

Is that middlesex in england?

jerseydevil · 08-22-2002, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Is that middlesex in england?

No - That's Middlesex County NJ, which Plainsboro is located in. New Jersey is made up of 21 counties with several that were named after areas in England, such as Somerset, Essex, Middlesex, etc. My New Jersey map page shows all the counties of NJ,

Sween · 08-22-2002, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil

No - I live in Middlesex County NJ. New Jersey is made up of 21 counties with several that were named after areas in England, such as Somerset, Essex, Middlesex, etc.

i love sommerset they have the funniest accents down there. My cousin goes to uni there and he spends all day taking the p*** out of the locals.

jerseydevil · 08-23-2002, 03:13 AM

I drive through Somerset County everyday - but was never to Somerset England. I was at Leistershire and London. Driven through Oxford - but couldn't stop. Maybe someday I'll get to actually visit England again. I really want to go see Cantebury and check out Thomas a' Becket's tomb.

By the way - Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Letting police do house to house searches would lead to heavy abuses of power.

Comic Book Guy · 08-23-2002, 02:46 PM

Technically in Britain, your privacy can be legally withheld from you in ther matter of National Security by means of spying by government organisations such as MI5.

In Northern Ireland in the 1970's, the British Army were given permission to do house-to-house arms searches and they could impose curfews on areas to allow them to do this. This caused outrage amongst the people, making matters only worse, gave more support to Terrorists and mostly failed it's objective. My Grandmother tells me stories about abuse of power in this situation all the time.

sun-star · 08-23-2002, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Uve a point and maybe it would be abused but if losing a bit of privacy and having the discomfot and anoyance of losing privacy could stop things like 9/11 and what happened to jessica and holly isnt it a small price to pay?

I don't really see how giving police more powers to search houses would have helped in this particular case, because how could police search before they had any suspects? They could hardly search the whole county, just from practical reasons. Anyway, I agree that greater powers could lead to an abuse of power. I don't do anything illegal - but that doesn't mean I want the police searching my house. Things don't have to be illegal for you to want them to be kept private. Not to be paranoid, but you don't know what the police might do with that information. They're only human, after all.

Quote:

I really want to go see Canterbury and check out Thomas a' Becket's tomb.

It's definitely worth seeing.

Rána Eressëa · 08-23-2002, 06:03 PM

I wouldn't give any human that kind of power to freely search people's homes because, number one: they're still humans, and humans are not the most trustable animals on the planet. I'd trust a Doberman Pincher with my life before I trusted a cop with it. Just because they have political or high scocial status doesn't mean they're "good" or "right". I mean, honestly, even some priests can't be trusted these days.

samwiselvr2008 · 08-23-2002, 07:28 PM

I geuss that you are all right, humans are humans, and it would lead to big problems. And you never know what might happen if only one please gose in the house, with a gun and everything else, expesally if they do not like you!

***azalea*** · 08-23-2002, 09:49 PM

Yeah, I think more than giving police more power in that espect neighbors should stay aware of what is going on around them, and can then report if anything is suspicious. In our neighborhood we all just spy on each other and it keeps us out of trouble.

I wonder what my neighbors thought when I was lying on my front yard at 5 AM last winter looking up at the Leonid meteor shower?

08-21-2002, 02:54 PM	#22
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Uve a point and maybe it would be abused but if losing a bit of privacy and having the discomfot and anoyance of losing privacy could stop things like 9/11 and what happened to jessica and holly isnt it a small price to pay? I myself am not that fussed i have no illegal things going on in my life (well nothing serious a bit of drive by knoming) and should'nt we not fear if we have nothing to hide? __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

08-21-2002, 06:58 PM	#25
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	My feeling is, that even if the police could manage to get their evil way, and do mass searches, it still wouldn't help prevent these crimes, because they're understaffed, and undertrained. Can you imagine a police state with untrained imbeciles just waltzing into peoples homes? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-22-2002, 05:34 AM	#27
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Is that middlesex in england? __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

08-23-2002, 03:13 AM	#30
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I drive through Somerset County everyday - but was never to Somerset England. I was at Leistershire and London. Driven through Oxford - but couldn't stop. Maybe someday I'll get to actually visit England again. I really want to go see Cantebury and check out Thomas a' Becket's tomb. By the way - Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Letting police do house to house searches would lead to heavy abuses of power. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-23-2002 at 03:19 AM.

08-23-2002, 07:28 PM	#34
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	I geuss that you are all right, humans are humans, and it would lead to big problems. And you never know what might happen if only one please gose in the house, with a gun and everything else, expesally if they do not like you! __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

08-23-2002, 02:46 PM	#31
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Technically in Britain, your privacy can be legally withheld from you in ther matter of National Security by means of spying by government organisations such as MI5. In Northern Ireland in the 1970's, the British Army were given permission to do house-to-house arms searches and they could impose curfews on areas to allow them to do this. This caused outrage amongst the people, making matters only worse, gave more support to Terrorists and mostly failed it's objective. My Grandmother tells me stories about abuse of power in this situation all the time.

08-23-2002, 06:03 PM	#33
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I wouldn't give any human that kind of power to freely search people's homes because, number one: they're still humans, and humans are not the most trustable animals on the planet. I'd trust a Doberman Pincher with my life before I trusted a cop with it. Just because they have political or high scocial status doesn't mean they're "good" or "right". I mean, honestly, even some priests can't be trusted these days.

08-23-2002, 09:49 PM	#35
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Yeah, I think more than giving police more power in that espect neighbors should stay aware of what is going on around them, and can then report if anything is suspicious. In our neighborhood we all just spy on each other and it keeps us out of trouble. I wonder what my neighbors thought when I was lying on my front yard at 5 AM last winter looking up at the Leonid meteor shower?