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05-01-2004, 05:13 PM | #61 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Major-General, TWO STARS Lieutenant-General THREE STARS General (usually of an Army) FOUR STARS FIVE STARS reserved for commander of a world wide crisis, generally.
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05-01-2004, 06:01 PM | #62 |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Terrible. I do not have any understanding towards things like this. How can a human being do something like that?
One day I watched The Pianist by Roman Polanskij (sp?) and I was stunned. It's the same thing happening here, every day in every war. That was the worst violation they could do to those Iraqis - they'd raher have been killed than degraded this way. We all have to work for this violation against human rights to stop!
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05-01-2004, 08:58 PM | #63 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Well for them it was degrading just like drading American corpses through the streets is degrading for us. Now their doing it in Saudi Arabia. It seems to be the new fad.
..I guess we should just be "kinder and gentler"?
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05-01-2004, 11:24 PM | #64 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I don't condone what the soldiers did and I think they should be hung for treason - because what they have done is inflamed arab hostilities even more toward Americans. They should be charged for treason as far as I'm concerned. But what sorry do the Middle Eastern countries really show toward the brutality they issue. Do you really think Al Jazeera broadcast the burning and hung corspes of our people in a sympathitic and disgusted light? I agree with SGH - there is a double standard - but the thing is WE DO NOT CONDONE this behavior. The world rejoices when an American screws up - or the US in general screws up. And I agree with spock on the complete naivete on dealing with evil in this world. It's laughable some of the suggestions.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-01-2004 at 11:27 PM. |
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05-01-2004, 11:29 PM | #65 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By the way Radagast - do you know how condescending you sound with the "you American-types". What type are we? You can basically hear the contempt you have there.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-01-2004 at 11:31 PM. |
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05-01-2004, 11:46 PM | #66 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: on the boats
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I think this quote from the Sunday Herald perhaps helps sum up the issue.
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Oh, and '*-types' is a construction I use myself. It's not uncommon. Certainly when I use it it's not intended to be contemptuous or derogatory ... more said with a sense of humour. And ... so why WERE the photos published? And would you have preferred that they weren't, and that these things were kept secret? Remember, one of the reasons given for their publication was to highlight why there was such resistance to coalition forces. |
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05-02-2004, 12:00 AM | #67 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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You act as if America did this and the we support this. As for the Sun article - that isn't entirely true - because HERE the reason for goiing to war wasn't only for WMD - that was only one of MANY reasons - one of the first reasons, along with WMD, was to bring down Hussein and bring demcracy to the Middle East. Quote:
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And I already said that the soldiers should be tried for treason. Do the Palestinians take action against their suicide bombers when they bring down the peace process like that?
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-02-2004 at 12:03 AM. |
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05-02-2004, 02:31 AM | #68 | ||
Elf Lord
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Sorry, guys, but this was policy, not perversion. I'm sure the Army is extremely angry that this happened, because of the rage it's going to generate in Iraq, but the CIA/ DIA were the ones in charge. Quote:
I wonder from whom the 'contractors' involved received their training in interrogation techniques 'particulary humiliating to Arabs'?
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05-02-2004, 04:11 AM | #69 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
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It is naive to think that everyone out there is friendly and easy going... that is true. It is equally naive to think that the U.S. is any different. The U.S. has a long history of torture and human rights abuses. Now, this RARELY happens on U.S. soil, but that is really a function of convenience. America has tremendous political capital all over the globe, and this allows her to export the less-than-friendly elements of her intelligence machine abroad. You think that the fighters from Afghanistan are being held in Cuba for security? By removing them from U.S. soil (or keeping them off of it) the U.S. is able to withhold rights which they would otherwise be entitled to. The rendering process (turning over suspected terrorists to countries like Jordan and Syria where torture is permitted) is one that has been admitted to by George Tenet at the 9/11 hearings. The U.S. also sponsored numerous programs to develop 'counter-insurgency' practices in it's South American allies; including torture and terrorist-style political action.
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05-02-2004, 05:18 AM | #70 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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05-02-2004, 08:48 AM | #71 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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My personal opinion on this is that this is a war.....war IS horrific....and the saying "All's fair in love and WAR" rings true, for all involved. While some may play *dirtier* than others, it is war...and there are not going to be many saints. A *clean, quick* war is extremely rare. There is too much at stake for those involved, desperate times lead to desperate people...brace yourself, probably more bad/evil times to come, till this situation is stablized/resolved.
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05-02-2004, 08:50 AM | #72 | |
The Dude
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so the US is handing its suspects to countries that allow torture, so that they can keep their hands clean. and you think thats alright JD because the US isnt the ones that are literally doing the torturing... i must be misunderstanding you
(please forgive my vague post as you can probably tell im with Sminty_Smeagol, **** politics ) Quote:
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05-02-2004, 09:52 AM | #73 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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There were 3,000 people killed - innocent people - inside of an hour 45 minutes from where I live. Now ask me if I care for the likes of Al Qaeda - a group of people who have PUBLICLY said they want to destroy the WEST not just the United - but Australia, European and any moderate muslim country.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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05-02-2004, 10:01 AM | #74 | |
Quasi Evil
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Location: Maryland, US
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All I said was that there should have been a collective slapping of the forehead when we found out about what happened. Not a collective shrugging of the shoulders or a collective pointing of the finger at others. If we hold ourselves up to a higher standard then we have to accept what it means when we fail to keep that high standard on occasion. Its ok to say WE #&$@ed UP once in a while Jersey. Its called owning up to ones actions. And a true patriot will do that. And will never make an excuse or inject it with a "but they do it too!" argument.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-02-2004, 10:04 AM | #75 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-02-2004, 10:55 AM | #76 |
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I'd like to say, I condemn the torturing of prisoners, by the US or the UK, or any other country, whether it's in Iraq or Bosnia or anywhere else.
I'd like to add that the war in Iraq should have been headed by the UN!!! Not the US!!! (Personally, I was totally against this war. If the world did not act together, as one body, then it shouldn't happen. period!) That the UN is now finally becoming active in this mess, is a good thing. But it's a little late, IMO. |
05-02-2004, 11:27 AM | #77 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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05-02-2004, 12:37 PM | #78 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ruinel
[B]I'd like to add that the war in Iraq should have been headed by the UN!!! Not the US!!! The UN has never soved any conflict in any area it's ever gone into without the US paying the bills and the price in human life. Twelve years of "you better behave" UN resolutions produced nothing. The haven't been and still can't field a force that's effective and composed of major nations as oppsed to what they do now with third world nation troops. The US was the only one who could do something and so it did. It ain't pretty but Iraq is underway for change.
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05-02-2004, 01:32 PM | #79 |
im quite stupid
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I hate to say it but im with JD on this it is entirely expected that some people will let the side down and act in a completally unprofessional and wrong way. If a isolated group of people decide to do something wrong there isnt much that can be done by the looks of it this was a small unit which would of had a de centralized mangement structure in other words there are wholey responisable for there actions.
We should expected better of our fellow countryment i mean i wouldnt do that kinda stuff but at the same time i wouldnt rape someone which fellow englismen do so you cannot look as people as just one race cos well thats rascism isnt it. But the US seem to be dealing with in in the correct procedures
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05-02-2004, 01:58 PM | #80 | ||||
Enting
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JerseyDevil, I'm sure you've had to deal with a tremendous amount of emotional hardship considering your location. But ask yourself what America stands for; and whether or not the practice of Rendering, or training brutal dictators, or torturing prisoners destroys those things. You talk about racism, but I think you are guilty of something far worse, jingoism. The same sort of thinking that allows someone to blow up a bus or a building ("they're not human, they're occupiers/infidels/evil") is the exact same logic you are using to justify torture and rape, and that is a frightening thought. I would think someone that had to endure 9/11 would be more in-tune with what it means to be a civilized, compassionate human. Instead you are sounding more like the people who organized the massacre. That is not to say that you are the same... but you're starting to rationalize America's behaviour by dehumanizing those that are a victim to it. Quote:
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