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#421 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
Posts: 53
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All of our posts are coming so fast that they are starting to run together. The cell block in question is populated with people that are of a higher-risk than the prison's general population; but there is evidence (From the Red Cross) that the general population has been mistreated horribly, which is my primary concern.
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#422 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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See - this is what really pisses me off. We ARE playing by the rules of the Geneva Convention. You see a FEW soldiers went beyond it. It was NOT the US who violated that is why we started investigating it back when we first found out about it. Everyone acts like the first time this was known was with the pictures and that no action was being taken. Soldiers do things on their own sometimes. There are people who do horrible things in every industry =- you can not expect the the US military or any military to be any different. There is one thing though that you seem to want to ignore - we aren't condoning it - we are taking action and we have been taking actiuon. That is ALSO part of the Geneva Convention. The only thing the Geneva Convention is a protection from government sactioned torture - not rogue soldiers.
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#423 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I however am waiting for the facts and am not passing judgement on Rumsfeld because so far everything shows that he didn't know it was going on. Also - all evidence does show that it was isolated. Also - many of the 'victims" that have come forward have been found to be lying by the Red Cross and Amnesty International. Those facts don't get as reported though. One person they had one - had his arm all bandaged - said he was beat up and everything else - when they unwrapped his arm - there was nothing wrong at all.
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#424 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
Posts: 53
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Care to source any of your assertions?
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"Is that anything like a cemetary? 'Cause I need to take a leak." |
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#425 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#426 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Well I know you overreact to just about every comment.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#427 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Sorry if this is too graphic for you - but this a FACT of what happened to him. This is a FACT of what these people do. This area of the world RUTINELY throws acid on women's faces or stones them to death for looking at a man or talking to a strange man. What about the backpackers who were found stoned to death in Afganistan? What did they do to deserve that?
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#428 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#429 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#430 | |||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#431 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Insidious Rex
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As for my answer - it's this... Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#432 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#433 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#434 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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By the way - I never said "Yeah the soldiers at Abu Ghraib were wrong but..." This is another example of your repeated twisting of words for your own points. No ONE is comparing the two. Great I'm glad you think that the terrorists should be hunted down and killed. We have a break through - too bad you think that we can just ask them - "are you guilty" and they'll just say "yeah we killed him". If it was only so easy to get the information. Quote:
What I find funny is that you get irritated at the wide brush strokes I painted the Middle East in - but you and your ilk have no problem painting republicans in wide brush strokes all the time.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-17-2004 at 05:27 PM. |
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#435 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#436 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Let me remind you what I said in regards to the Robin Williams quote in response to your comment... Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#437 | |||||||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#438 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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By the way - before you think I'm racist again for my statements. My brother was stationed in Bahrain and will be again in another week - he said the Bahrainis are very nice and always friendly and helpful. I realize NOT ALL Middle Eastern countries are the same. But the tribal lands of Pakistan, Afganistan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia - pretty much fit the bill.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-17-2004 at 05:47 PM. |
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#439 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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*sigh* The important thing to learn from this debacle is that apparently some members of the US army are culpable of not adhering to the GC. This is not a reflection on the whole US army, nor a reflection upon the American people. HOWEVER, it goes without saying, that this is not an isolated matter, nor is it restricted to a few low-ranking 'hillbillies' (as evidenced by Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay).
Also: consider what they did to the prisoners. Consider the notion of cultural differences. Whilst we westerners may not think much of being paraded around naked, and forced to simulate sex, or rape (!), it is something else altogether to a muslim people. (though, I would argue that being hooded, and forced to strip naked, and enduring sexual force would be something that most of you wouldn't want occurring to yourselves.) And even if you don't believe that the high numbers posted by the Red Cross are true, even so, SOME of these prisoners are innocent. Some innocents would have been subjected to being sodomised, raped, stripped of both their clothes and dignity. And before you go on about so-called intelligence pointing to their guilt, remember this: Colin Powell has had to come forward more than once to rescind previous intelligence leading to the Iraq war. (link) There is supposedly footage of a man being forced to bash himself against the wall. Another of someone being forced to sodomise himself with a broom. Is this better than being beheaded? Really? ![]() All this aside: the US has set itself up as the World Police (whether through its own machinations, or because of apathy of other nations). It has to behave accordingly. What happened in Iraq, and other prison facilities is an atrocity. At the very least Bush should remove Rumsfeld. And apologise - which he has still not done - for the indignities committed against the prisoners. Quote:
edited to fix spelling error.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 05-17-2004 at 08:23 PM. |
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#440 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
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And it appears the mindset that led to these excesses, embarassment ploys, tortures, call them what you will, originated far above the privates/sargeants carrying them out.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/4386 A Newsweek article: The Roots of Torture: The Road to Abu Ghraib From the beginning of the above citation: "May 24 - It's not easy to get a member of Congress to stop talking. Much less a room full of them. But as a small group of legislators watched the images flash by in a small, darkened hearing room in the Rayburn Building last week, a sickened silence descended. There were 1,800 slides and several videos, and the show went on for three hours. The nightmarish images showed American soldiers at Abu Ghraib Prison forcing Iraqis to masturbate. American soldiers sexually assaulting Iraqis with chemical light sticks. American soldiers laughing over dead Iraqis whose bodies had been abused and mutilated. There was simply nothing to say. "It was a very subdued walk back to the House floor," said Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. "People were ashen." The White House put up three soldiers for court-martial, saying the pictures were all the work of a few bad-apple MPs who were poorly supervised. But evidence was mounting that the furor was only going to grow and probably sink some prominent careers in the process. Senate Armed Services Committee chairman John Warner declared the pictures were the worst "military misconduct" he'd seen in 60 years, and he planned more hearings."
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