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#401 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Oh, and where do I get my "blanket statements"? Howbabout the articles (which have been previously posted here) where the government admitted that between 70-90% of the inmates were arrested by mistake or innocent. For someone who feels fit to lecture people on reading comprehension, I am once again disappointed.
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"Is that anything like a cemetary? 'Cause I need to take a leak." |
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#402 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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IR POLL
I.R. IMO your question deserves it's own thread and perhaps you'd like to start it. Leaving it here only muddies the waters even more.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#403 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Quote:
4. Ive had some serious second thoughts on things recently. But Im not quite sure if its gone so far as to change my point of view fundamentaly.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#404 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Re: IR POLL
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#405 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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I'm sorry to have disappointed you. Guess asking for a loan is now out of the question. ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#406 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Spock and UJ... I like you both, but please stop fighting in open forum. Take it to PM's or emails if you must, but I'd prefer that you both take the chips off your respective shoulders, apologize for past indiscretions on your own part, agree to let bygones BE bygones... and just be more civil to one another henceforth. That's to BOTH of you, because I think you've both gone over the line.
Spock - I have read that there were some Red Cross reports on our prisoners there to the effect of how many were innocent (and I read the 70/80/90 % numbers on that). I don't know how reliable that information was - or even how accurate it would possibly be. However, I don't know that the Red Cross is a partisan body (though it's leadership is likely as human as the rest of it - and they may have their biases) - but it should at least give us pause.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#407 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
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Re: Re: IR POLL
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#408 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Gee Val and you used to be such a mild mannered, reasonable person.
![]() I'm sorry to disappoint you but the "a" word is much to much overused in todays politicaly correct society. ..I will rest for the day now, if that is any solace. Not to worry my friend. ![]()
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 05-17-2004 at 03:02 PM. |
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#409 | ||
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
Posts: 53
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edited to be nice
Anyways, back to the subject at hand... I notice you evaded the actual point I was making about innocents, so I'll repost my earlier citation which PROVES that I am right. I said that most (if not almost all) of the prisoners of Abu Ghraib prison were innocent or jailed by mistake. Your response? Quote:
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"Is that anything like a cemetary? 'Cause I need to take a leak." Last edited by Ultimatejoe : 05-17-2004 at 03:06 PM. |
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#410 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Nonetheless, I think both of your infractions were of the 'minor' variety, so if you just both move on and behave yourselves better from now on, it won't go on your permanent records. ![]() (UJ, please give Spock a break. He's normally quite logical. In fact, he hasn't been this irritable for what... the past seven years or so. Seven years... SEVEN YEARS!???!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#411 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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atrocities are a natural result of any extended conflict... you can look at any war in history and even the most democratic governments have their questionable moments US soldiers killed women and children in vietnam, sometimes with full knowledge of what they were doing... does it compare to the quantities of russian civilians killed during the german invasion of russia in ww2? no, but it demonstrates that even the best-trained soldiers from a highly democratic and free society can lose all morality when faced with the realities of war nobody likes to see their friends killed or live in fear of one's own life... it's a natural reaction the difference is the ability to react to and condemn such evils without qualifications, something i know US citizens are capable of the tendency among many governments (even democratic ones) is to brush them under the rug, or if not possible, to justify or excuse them... not only does this inspire our soldiers to commit more atrocities, but it gives ammo to those who say, 'the US is just as bad as everyone else' during vietnam the masses reacted to this by demanding the truth from our government officials... i would hope that the majority in the US is still able to look past the moment and realize that to achieve our goals we must practice as we preach... even if it costs us from time to time there will never be a 'clean war', where no innocents are killed... the sooner we accept this fact, this responsibility, when we decide to enter a war, the more we will regain the respect of the world once again one can make mistakes and still be respected... but step one is owning up to those mistakes
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#412 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 124
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Q.:Why are so many people focused on what the U.S. has done regarding interogation tactics,but I don't see mention of what the rest of the world has done.I don't condone,or condemn torture etc. but at the same time I'm not in a situation that I personally can say that it's wrong.The people that are conducting the interogations have a lot at stake personally,and at a much greater level,so who's to judge?
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#413 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 05-17-2004 at 03:32 PM. |
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#414 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Quote:
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#415 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 124
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#416 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#417 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Re: Re: Re: ARMY??
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#418 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
on the rest... the question is, do you draw a line on what is and isn't acceptable treatment of another human being no matter who they are or what they represent, or do you not? i draw a line... i also know that those put under torture will often say whatever an interogator wants to hear just to get them to stop... so we may be failing in more ways than one
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#419 | |||
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Trent University, Peterborough
Posts: 53
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What's interesting to note is that the U.S. is free to opt out of the Conventions at any time: Art. 158. Each of the High Contracting Parties shall be at liberty to denounce the present Convention. The denunciation shall be notified in writing to the Swiss Federal Council, which shall transmit it to the Governments of all the High Contracting Parties. The denunciation shall take effect one year after the notification thereof has been made to the Swiss Federal Council. However, a denunciation of which notification has been made at a time when the denouncing Power is involved in a conflict shall not take effect until peace has been concluded, and until after operations connected with release, repatriation and re-establishment of the persons protected by the present Convention have been terminated. The denunciation shall have effect only in respect of the denouncing Power. It shall in no way impair the obligations which the Parties to the conflict shall remain bound to fulfil by virtue of the principles of the law of nations, as they result from the usages established among civilized peoples, from the laws of humanity and the dictates of the public conscience. Instead the U.S. chose to continue playing by a certain set of rules, rules which they are no longer following. Iraq is a signatory of the Geneva Conventions, which means that it applies to all Iraqi Nationals held by the occupying force. There is no abbrogation of these conventions because they might be insurgents. You say the Geneva Conventions do not apply... Here's a link to the Geneva Conventions; find me the article which excludes the current situation from their protections: Geneva Conventions
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"Is that anything like a cemetary? 'Cause I need to take a leak." |
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#420 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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