patriotism

[gollum9630]

I was reading the paper a couple of days ago and saw an article that said Americans were getting mad a Canadians who have flags and other things identifying them when they travel. It said that Americans were feeling like we were another country against them. From what ive seen on the moot, al ot of americans are pretty patriotic. just wondering what others think about this.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by gollum9630
I was reading the paper a couple of days ago and saw an article that said Americans were getting mad a Canadians who have flags and other things identifying them when they travel. It said that Americans were feeling like we were another country against them. From what ive seen on the moot, al ot of americans are pretty patriotic. just wondering what others think about this.

I haven't heard anything about this at all, but I don't care if you wear flags or anything else while you travel. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic. I would have a problem if you were wearing anti-american pins.

By the way - I do have a huge Ontario flag which I had hanging in my room for a long time, right now it is packed away. I also have a British flag.

[Insidious Rex]

Ive got a t shirt that says Canadian girls kick ass myself.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by gollum9630
I was reading the paper a couple of days ago and saw an article that said Americans were getting mad a Canadians who have flags and other things identifying them when they travel. It said that Americans were feeling like we were another country against them. From what ive seen on the moot, al ot of americans are pretty patriotic. just wondering what others think about this.

Honestly, nobody cares if Canadians use flags to identify them. Sorry... but it's the truth. And I've never, ever heard this story.

I happen to have 2 sweatshirts that have Canada and the Canadian flag on them. I got them on separate visits to visit relatives up there. I wear them when I'm cold... as they are warm.

[hectorberlioz]

I happen to have 2 sweatshirts that have Canada and the Canadian flag on them. I got them on separate visits to visit relatives up there. I wear them when I'm cold... as they are warm.

I thought Elves didnt get cold .
hmm....must be flaws those elves have.....
j/k

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
I thought Elves didnt get cold .
hmm....must be flaws those elves have.....
j/k

Read UT... Of Tuor And His Coming To Gondolin...

Then Tuor said to Voronwë: "Fell is this frost, and death draws near me, if not to you." For they were now in evil case: it was long since they had found any food in the wild, and the waybread was dwindling; and they were cold and weary. "Ill is it to be trapped between the Doom of the Valar and the Malice of the Enemy," said Voronwë. "Have I escaped the mouths of the sea but to lie under the snow?"
......

"I counted myself the hardiest of Men," said Tuor, "and I have endured many winters' woe in the mountain; but I had a cave at my back and fire then, and I doubt now my strength to go much further thus hungry through the fell of winter. But let us go on as far as we may before hope fails."

"No other choice have we," said Voronwë, "unless it be to lay us down here and seek the snow-sleep."

Elves are hardier than Men, but they too succumb to cold and drown in water. They are not immortal. They only seem that way to Men.

[The Gaffer]

Patriotism has its good and bad sides.

On the positive side, it ties people together and strengthens a sense of the collective good.

On the bad side, it makes it much easier to dehumanise other nationalities, justify wars and distract people from what's really going on. It has always been cynically exploited by those in power to perpetuate their regimes, so one should be reflexively suspicious of it.

[Radagast]

Extreme patriotism is a uniquely American phenomenon. Take England. There were virtually no St George's day celebrations. However, we still celebrated St. Patrick's day and sung rebel songs about people who tried to blow up our English grandfathers. England, as I have said before on another thread, is rather embarassed at such displays.

However, she can still be stirred. Look at the outpouring of support at HM the Queen's Golden Jubilee, for example. So I suppose it goes both ways.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Radagast
Extreme patriotism is a uniquely American phenomenon.

well I dont know about that. We are just well known for our "ugly americans" who can sometimes take things too far or just arent even aware what kind of embarrassing boobs they are being. But I believe in other countries its referred to as Nationalism and you can find it in almost any country you look in. And in SOME countries extreme nationalists make "extreme patriots" (american) look like peace loving hippies.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
Extreme patriotism is a uniquely American phenomenon.

We have a strong patriotic feeling here because of our history. The founders of this country went through a lot. We fought the greatest power in the world for our independence, and sent you guys packing across the ocean. We established the first modern democracy with a Constitution. A Constitution which is copied all over the world.

Yes we are patriotic, but we haven't imperialized and colonized an entire world in the name of it - like Europe, we haven't killed millions and millions of people like Germany has. We are proud of our accomplishments and that is where OUR patriotism lies.

Take England. There were virtually no St George's day celebrations. However, we still celebrated St. Patrick's day and sung rebel songs about people who tried to blow up our English grandfathers. England, as I have said before on another thread, is rather embarassed at such displays.

Is that why in England in the late 1800's early 1900's you used to have balls at manor houses where people dressed up as the rulers of your conquered colonies such as India, South Africa, etc? You had MORE that your fair share of patriotism and usually it was to put down others. We are PROUD of our country and it is not a way of saying "we are better than you", it is a way of showing our pride in our country.

I know Europe likes to look down on our patriotism - but most of it is out of jealousy because at one time you guys used to be the world powers, now you are but a speck of dirt in the grand scheme of things and are no longer calling the shots. I'm sure if I see America fall off the pedestal like you guys did, I will feel the same way and be resentful of who ever takes our place.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Radagast
Extreme patriotism is a uniquely American phenomenon.

If only it was, we might have avoided the odd holocaust and world war here and there. To me, the American brand isn't as extreme as has been seen in Europe in the past.

[brownjenkins]

i put patriotism/nationalism in the same boat as *dare i say it* religion... it's mostly harmless, sometimes positive, sometimes very negative... i'd like to see us think more about mankind and less about nations... it's easy to say "we're not bragging, just being proud"... but i think it's better to leave the flag-waving alone, and let your deeds speak for themselves... if they are really that impressive, the flag-waving isn't necessary

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i put patriotism/nationalism in the same boat as *dare i say it* religion... it's mostly harmless, sometimes positive, sometimes very negative... i'd like to see us think more about mankind and less about nations... it's easy to say "we're not bragging, just being proud"... but i think it's better to leave the flag-waving alone, and let your deeds speak for themselves... if they are really that impressive, the flag-waving isn't necessary

Well you can leave it alone - I will continue to be proud of MY country and wave the flag and proudly celebrate 4th of July and everything else.

You can show and have a love for your country and still care about others on the outside. But hey - my family comes before you - NJ comes before Massachusetts and my country comes before England or any other country. Sorry - but that is the way it is.

[Attalus]

I think being proud of your country and wishing it well are at the heart of true patriotism. Other countries doubtless show it differently than we do.

[Radagast]

Originally posted by jerseydevil

Is that why in England in the late 1800's early 1900's you used to have balls at manor houses where people dressed up as the rulers of your conquered colonies such as India, South Africa, etc? You had MORE that your fair share of patriotism and usually it was to put down others. We are PROUD of our country and it is not a way of saying "we are better than you", it is a way of showing our pride in our country.

I know Europe likes to look down on our patriotism - but most of it is out of jealousy because at one time you guys used to be the world powers, now you are but a speck of dirt in the grand scheme of things and are no longer calling the shots. I'm sure if I see America fall off the pedestal like you guys did, I will feel the same way and be resentful of who ever takes our place.

I believe England did a far better job of governing those backwater colonies that they ever could do themselves. Look at them now, like India. In the days of Lord Clive and the Honourable East India Company they had the rule of law, stability and civilisation. Now what is India? It has reverted to being a disease-ridden backwater.

Perhaps a nation with as little history as America has a concentrated feeling in their history?

[Falagar]

I know Europe likes to look down on our patriotism - but most of it is out of jealousy because at one time you guys used to be the world powers, now you are but a speck of dirt in the grand scheme of things and are no longer calling the shots. I'm sure if I see America fall off the pedestal like you guys did, I will feel the same way and be resentful of who ever takes our place.

I think it's because we have seen what patrioism may do to with people. Just look at what happend in Germany.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Falagar
I think it's because we have seen what patrioism may do to with people. Just look at what happend in Germany.

Was that because of patriotism? (I'm not saying it's not - just want an explanation. What happened in gerany and how it's connected to patriotism)

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I know Europe likes to look down on our patriotism - but most of it is out of jealousy because at one time you guys used to be the world powers, now you are but a speck of dirt in the grand scheme of things and are no longer calling the shots.

No generalising, please. As one dirtspeck to another: It may be that some of the European countries lost or neglected some traditions around anthems and patriotism that America has kept. And it may be that some Europeans tend to look at American patriotism as overblown and overdramatised. But that does NOT immediatly link up with jealousy.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
I think it's because we have seen what patrioism may do to with people. Just look at what happend in Germany.

That wasn't patriotism - that was fanatism. Have you been to the US? Have you been to a 4th of July parade? or Fireworks? How can you JUDGE our patriotism and compare it to World War II Germany?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
I believe England did a far better job of governing those backwater colonies that they ever could do themselves. Look at them now, like India. In the days of Lord Clive and the Honourable East India Company they had the rule of law, stability and civilisation. Now what is India? It has reverted to being a disease-ridden backwater.

Well then I'm glad. I suppose you can support the war in Iraq now. We're just attempting to bring a "backwater" country and region into the 21st century.

Perhaps a nation with as little history as America has a concentrated feeling in their history?

We have accomplished A LOT in 200 years and we have a right to be proud of our accomplishments.