RotK review from theonering.net...

[Dúnedain]

I just read the review of RotK from theonering.net. It's pretty good, check it out:

11-28-03 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROTK Screening Report! Xoanon @ 6:31 pm EST URUK HI THERE writes: I live in LA and work in the movie business, so I was able to go to the first Academy Awards screening of ROTK yesterday. Thanksgiving day, and they still filled a big theater - I think that says something about the enthusiasm of LOTR's many fans in the film industry! What struck me most was how much ROTK really is the third act of one huge epic. All climax and payoff. I couldn't even begin to count the number of thrilling action sequences. And yet, even more than with the other movies, the emotional focus is tight on the characters. The LOTR movies actually have less in common with fantasy like STAR WARS, and more in common with classic epics like LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and SPARTACUS. So in a fairly traditional sense, ROTK is an old fashioned War Movie. We get the incredible battles, but also the fear in anonymous soldiers' eyes, and our heroes desperately overcoming that fear to do what has to be done - which is of course what MAKES them heroes. Happily, ROTK doesn't glorify war, but rather the impulse for sacrifice, putting yourself on the line for a greater good. But what all LOTR fans will be saying as they leave the theater is "I cried!" Don't bring a date if you don't want them to see you cry. Do bring Kleenex, whatever. If you love these characters, you're going to cry. Like nine times. Sad crying. Happy crying. Happy-sad crying. You get the picture. Legolas does a stunt you will never forget, battling an Oliphaunt (Mumak, whatever). Sam is the bravest character in any movie, ever. Just the sequence of Pippin singing for Denethor while Faramir rides off on a suicide mission should net Peter Jackson a Best Director nomination. Eowyn ROCKS as action heroine. And you really DON'T want to know what comes through that gate when Minas Tirith is breached. That being said, I bet this will be the LOTR pic that improves most on DVD. Obviously the Saruman sequence will be missed by fans. But some of the other character stories definitely seem truncated too. Aragorn has great stuff to do, but we miss a couple of beats in his transformation. No Houses of Healing - in the book, a nice moment where he "proves" his Kingship in a non-warlike way, and where we see how much the people WANT a King. Same with Denethor - we never really get the sense that he is a good and noble man who has fallen low. He seems spiteful, rather than tragic. His sons are so noble, I found that incongruous. And Arwen is barely present, seeming more like she did in the book - a gift-wrapped prize for the King. Finally, though we spend lots of time with Frodo and Sam, even their trip through Mordor is somewhat ellipsed at the end. Jackson et al seemed mainly concerned with making it clear how the Minas Tirith battles are connected with Frodo's story. This was probably a wise choice, especially for the larger audience who may never have read the books. But the bottom line is, this is a massive epic which even three LONG movies can barely contain, and Peter Jackson & Company did a great job of bringing it to an incredibly exciting climax and a VERY fulfilling ending. The last few scenes of the movie are particularly well crafted. There's a very subtle, understated scene after the Hobbits return to the Shire, with almost no dialogue. Everything is told by the looks on their faces. These are good actors! And then there's the Grey Havens. (See KLEENEX, above)

[bropous]

Title says it all. It's as vulgar as I can be in the presence of children.

I am looking forward to someone else doing the REAL Lord of the Rings. Three years of shilling for this pultroon, only to be repaid with a three-film trilogy which bear only glancing similarity with the books. Guess I got rooked like a lot of other folks.

There shall always be two types of "Tolkienites":

"movie" Tolkienites [tricksy false!]
"book" Tolkienites [the REAL deal].

Love and kisses,

bro.

{psssssstttt.....Peter Jackson........if there IS an "afterlife", I hope JRR kicks your capped teeth down your undeserving, revisionistic throat!}

IMAGINATION IS ALWAYS, AND I MEAN ALWAYS, BETTER THAN FILM!!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by bropous
Title says it all. It's as vulgar as I can be in the presence of children.

I am looking forward to someone else doing the REAL Lord of the Rings. Three years of shilling for this pultroon, only to be repaid with a three-film trilogy which bear only glancing similarity with the books. Guess I got rooked like a lot of other folks.

There shall always be two types of "Tolkienites":

"movie" Tolkienites [tricksy false!]
"book" Tolkienites [the REAL deal].

Love and kisses,

bro.

{psssssstttt.....Peter Jackson........if there IS an "afterlife", I hope JRR kicks your capped teeth down your undeserving, revisionistic throat!}

IMAGINATION IS ALWAYS, AND I MEAN ALWAYS, BETTER THAN FILM!!

Bropous - surely you haven't come over to my way of thinking? When FotR came out - you were nearly as bad BB. Then you seemed to slow down your posts - and I didn't know where you stood. I figured you were still worshipping Jackson. Welcome aboard. Did you see the sign up thread for the Taming of Jackson? We can always use more members when we go to storm his house.

The last time I posted with you - I think it was me arguing about Xena-Elf and you saying that movie and book is not the same and jackson had to make changes. That we should just be thankful he made the movies and took on the huge task. What a difference 2 years makes.

Don't worry - I don't hold your past indiscretions against you. I'm just glad you have come over the the enlightened side. I wonder - can we convince BB that Jackson is a hack? I doubt it though - because you were a book fan first - whereas I don't think BB ever opened the books.

[Goldberry1]

hmm, well... the review is positive. i suppose that's a good thing. movies rarely ever live up to the book they are based on though, and while i don't completely despise the movies (FOTR was somewhat disappointing, TTT totally let me down) ... it's always better when the movie plays out exactly as you know (or think) the story should. i'm holding out hope for ROTK. it can't possibly be as dissapointing as TTT was for me, could it?? i've already lowered my expectations as far as being in line with the book, but i will try as hard as i can to look at ROTK in terms of being a well-done movie.

the most promising tidbits from that review, in my opinion.

[bropous]

yup, jerseydevil, I DID come over to your side. You got through.

I think you saw it more clearly than most everyone else in the beginning. I think my original full-fledged support was just a wish on the wind, hoping the rest of the films would rectify the shortcomings of the first.

Fact is, it just got worse and worse.

Humans learn and grow, jd, this is just an example of an opinion growing and maturing over the space of three years.

I no longer carry the Jackson banner, and lay it in the mud where it belongs.

I was wrong to support him the the first place.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by bropous
yup, jerseydevil, I DID come over to your side. You got through.

I think you saw it more clearly than most everyone else in the beginning. I think my original full-fledged support was just a wish on the wind, hoping the rest of the films would rectify the shortcomings of the first.

Fact is, it just got worse and worse.

Humans learn and grow, jd, this is just an example of an opinion growing and maturing over the space of three years.

I no longer carry the Jackson banner, and lay it in the mud where it belongs.

I was wrong to support him the the first place.

Dont't worry - we all make mistakes. Now would you like to have an anti-Jackson banner, an anti-Arwen banner or the general "Pro-Tolkien" banner?

HMM - gives me an idea for a group avatar movement.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by bropous
Title says it all. It's as vulgar as I can be in the presence of children.

I am looking forward to someone else doing the REAL Lord of the Rings. Three years of shilling for this pultroon, only to be repaid with a three-film trilogy which bear only glancing similarity with the books. Guess I got rooked like a lot of other folks.

There shall always be two types of "Tolkienites":

"movie" Tolkienites [tricksy false!]
"book" Tolkienites [the REAL deal].

Love and kisses,

bro.

{psssssstttt.....Peter Jackson........if there IS an "afterlife", I hope JRR kicks your capped teeth down your undeserving, revisionistic throat!}

IMAGINATION IS ALWAYS, AND I MEAN ALWAYS, BETTER THAN FILM!!

Sing it brother! *shakes tamborine*

[zinnite]

I don't think The One Ring would ever say anything negative about any of the films, even if you offered them the One Ring itself. The only reason the site exists anymore is to glorify the films and hold them on high, as well as have constant updates on That One Guy who played Somebody in the film who was third from the left in the second row of elves in the prologue to FOTR.

And there I go getting off-topic again...

I guess I am that rare fan who loves the books (even before the films came out!), but who also likes the movies because while they generally stink as interpretations (or even loose adaptations) of Tolkien's work, they're still pretty fun and get a few things right.

TTT really changed my opinion, though, and the more I watch it, the more I fear for what we will see in ROTK.

[Cirdan]

I smell civil war at the moot a-brewin'.

Sad to hear the dimishment of character dev. for action but I'm not surprised. It would be hard to totally ruin a story with such a spectacular end. I wonder if BB will now say that no massive Arwen injection was a better choice than his hoped-for long white wedding scene buildup.

I'm really enjoying reading LotR again before the premier. While PJ selected some spectacular settings they seem inert compared to JRRT's descriptions of ME. I would have loved it if they could have found landscape to match the walk from Henneth Annun to the Crossroads (oh, because they didn't go that way).

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by zinnite
I don't think The One Ring would ever say anything negative about any of the films, even if you offered them the One Ring itself. The only reason the site exists anymore is to glorify the films and hold them on high, as well as have constant updates on That One Guy who played Somebody in the film who was third from the left in the second row of elves in the prologue to FOTR.

I was going to point out the same thing. The guy has an interest in promoting the Lord of the Rings movies. For one thing - do you really think he would still be getting free interviews and previews and all the other extras he gets if he didn't do good reviews? He's not going to bite the hand that feed him.

I guess I am that rare fan who loves the books (even before the films came out!), but who also likes the movies because while they generally stink as interpretations (or even loose adaptations) of Tolkien's work, they're still pretty fun and get a few things right.

TTT really changed my opinion, though, and the more I watch it, the more I fear for what we will see in ROTK.

Don't worry - I have a feeling many of the hold overs will be joining the Anti-Jackson League soon. I'm massing my armies - hector, Mithrand1r, Ruinel, Bop and others - contact me for details.

To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone;
Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone;
We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door;
For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war!
To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come;
To Isengard with doom we come!
With doom we come, with doom we come!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cirdan
I smell civil war at the moot a-brewin'.

You posted this while I was typing. I see you read my mind.

[kennebecc]

Here is what Helice on TORc had to say about ROTK. Perhaps this is a review more to your liking. Enjoy:

I saw it yesterday. (Dec. 1). Purists, wait for the extended Edition next year, there are too many chunks of important storyline missing, sacrificed to expensive and over-long battle sequences. Jackson is too in love with his cgi effects and the fabled Massive program, and overuses both to show ever-increasing ranks of orcs, to little effect.

You won't see what happened to Saruman or Grima, you won't get to say goodbye to TreeBeard, Merry does not swear fealty to Theoden nor discuss pipeweed.



Arwen comes down with a myterious illness, and Elrond says she is dying because of the power of the Eye. Yuck. Apparently, PJ felt he needed to "add urgency" to the story by striking Arwen with a fatal illness countdown, to make the defeat of Sauron more "important" to Aragorn. (sigh)



Gollum actually convinces Frodo to tell Sam to go home, and Sam actrually goes... for a while.

Denethor is played as crazy-disgusting-old-man from the git-go, you never get a sense of the stern and wise Steward from him, he's just portrayed as a loon with bad teeth and a squint. Denethor has no Palantir. The line "Did you think the eyes of the White Tower were blind?" is in, but you wonder exactly what he means by it.

There are detailed and endless battles in Osgiliath that aren't in the book, or were such that were mentioned in a single line of exposition. Now we see the battles go on and on and onn-nn-n. Apparently relentless scenes of orcs snarling and orcs roaring and orcs laughing and orcs clashing swords and orcs gnashing teeth and orcs stabbing men and orcs gloating over dead men's bodies were too important to sacrifice, unlike the Houses of Healing and the love between Eowyn and Faramir which went missing without a clue.

Gandalf has to enlist Pippin to sneak over to the beacons and light them, against crazy geek-Denethor's orders.



Eowynn gets to do her thing with the Witch King with minimal help from Merry, but never gets to say "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik!" (a favorite line of mine). After Theoden falls and Eowyn crawls over to say goodbye, Theoden is never mentioned again. By anyone. He's food for worms and no-one cares. They do not lay him in state nor bear his body back to Rohan. Merry never gets to say "I'm sorry to have done nothing in your service except weep at our parting", and Theoden never smiles and muses that they'll never get to discuss herb-lore.

Merry and Faramir and Eowyn are all quick healers it seems, because none of them are hospitalized. They show up smiling at the coronation, without explanation. Famamir and Eowyn exchange quick goofy grins while applauding for Aragorn in a cut that's less than 1 second long. We never see Eomer again after the battle, and he never found Eowyn on the battlefield nor led the Riders chanting "Death!" He never becomes King of Rohan.



The way the Ring is taken from Frodo and destroyed is not the way Tolkien said it was. Jackson "improved" the final Ring scene.

When Frodo awakes from his sleep after the Ring is destroyed, all the heroes come through the door one by one in an extended cinematic curtain call, and they all laugh too loudly and long.... a little tooooo long to be natural actually, it sounds a little odd. And it takes valuable time away that could have been used to tell the STORY.



Frodo does not bear the crown to Gandalf, but at least Gandalf places the crown. Actually, a circlet instead of the crown described by Tolkien.


The Shire needs no scouring, Saruman never came there and made it necessary for the hobbits to grow into their own and defeat him without the help of men or wizards.

Then there are four or five oddly edited scenes, each one an ending scene of sorts, followed by another and another, and seperated by a moment of black screen. The audience twitched uncomfortably, and a few even giggled after the third or fourth went by.

After a while everyone shows up at the Grey Havens, some people in the theater shed a tear, but that scene was too brief for my taste, and the destination was never revealed to the non-fan audience.

So, basically, it's swords clashing, battles raging, Mumakil screaming, arrows flying, orcs roaring, Gollum hissing, a real action flick, but the story was hacked out with a rusty axe. Some scenes in the trailer do not appear in the theatrical release.

Too much action, too much volume, too little heart and storyline. Let's hope the Extended Edition will have all the stuff that was cut, wrapping up each major character's storyline instead of abandining them. -From Marty's Spoiler Thread on TORc

Marty's Spoilers

[cassiopeia]

I think I'm slowly coming over to your side too, JD. I loved the FOTR, bar some scenes, and I thought TTT was okay. But now seeing the spoilers for the ROTK, I am bitterly dissapointed. Saying that, I am still excited about the ROTK (got my tickets yesterday!), but I am not afraid to critisise PJ when I think he deserves to be.

I don't need to see the film to know that

Frodo sending Sam away is unlike the Frodo I have loved for many years from the books. In the books, Frodo would never send Sam back alone. I know that not tying up Saruman's story will baffle the audience.

I can't wait to see the ROTK, but I know it won't be Tolkien's ROTK. It will be PJ's version -- and a poorer version at that.

[jerseydevil]

Can anyone say - "ka-ching for WETA"? It seems like Jackson got the money from New Line for the Lord of the Rings and just put it into his other pocket for WETA. LotR makes a great 9 hour advertisement for WETA too - but along the way - Jackson forgot he was making LORD OF THE RINGS.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I think I'm slowly coming over to your side too, JD. I loved the FOTR, bar some scenes, and I thought TTT was okay. But now seeing the spoilers for the ROTK, I am bitterly dissapointed.

I think more and more people will be coming over to my side - at least the people who were fans of the books. I didn't like FotR as people know. I felt too many changes were there and I knew it would only get worse. For one thing -jackson turned FotR into an action film and he could only intensify the action even more in the others.

Saying that, I am still excited about the ROTK (got my tickets yesterday!), but I am not afraid to critisise PJ when I think he deserves to be.

I will go see it - but as always - I will criticize it. I already have a deep feeling I will hate this movie.

I don't need to see the film to know that

I'm not surprised. I really need to find that scenario that I wrote and posted with Arwen destroying the Ring. It might make you feel a little better that Jackson didn't do that one.

I can't wait to see the ROTK, but I know it won't be Tolkien's ROTK. It will be PJ's version -- and a poorer version at that.

Fellowship of the Ring wasn't Tolkiens. Let's all face it - Jackson made dumbed down Hollywood action flicks and he is a hack.

[Dúnedain]

Well I never listen to reviews whether they are good or bad. I like to form my own opinion and will once I see this. I will say that thus far I've enjoyed the movies, deviations and all. They have still entertained me and opened up the world of Tolkien, whether something has been changed or not.

Return of the King is my favorite of the three, so if I am to be critical about changes in the movie, this is the one that it will happen on, lol. I just hope they don't mess up the Paths of the Dead more than they have with not having the Dúnedain there. In some of the trailers I was getting worried, because you see Aragorn giving a speech to the soldiers and then it flashes to Eowyn (Dernhelm), which I didn't quit understand and was hoping they were two different scenes meshed together for the trailer. I say this, because at the time Dernhelm is in battle, Aragorn is with the Grey Company. So, hopefully that speech he was giving was in front of the Black Gate or was separate from Dernhelm's scene.

Either way, I am sure I will enjoy the movie for what it is regardless...

[Dúnedain]

Read that Marty's Spoilers link that was provided above by kennebecc. The first couple pages a guy answers a bunch of questions after seeing the movie and it's not the review that was posted above. He answers a lot of the questions we have all been asking lately.

For example:

What did you think of Denethor (closeness to the books, dialogue, performance, etc)? He was quite the jerk, and the acting was superb. He and Gandalf sure hate one another. And when he tells Faramir that he wishes that he had died instead of Boromir, all of the Fimamir haters should be converted by his reaction.

Also, since I new the Dúnedain were edited from the Paths of the Dead, what I thought was going to happen in the movie does as is confirmed here:

How were the Army of the Dead handled? And the corsairs? They mention the corsairs but there is no battle with them. The Dead do indeed show up to save the day at Minas Tirith.

I can live with that change

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Well I never listen to reviews whether they are good or bad. I like to form my own opinion and will once I see this. I will say that thus far I've enjoyed the movies, deviations and all. They have still entertained me and opened up the world of Tolkien, whether something has been changed or not.

Return of the King is my favorite of the three, so if I am to be critical about changes in the movie, this is the one that it will happen on, lol. I just hope they don't mess up the Paths of the Dead more than they have with not having the Dúnedain there. In some of the trailers I was getting worried, because you see Aragorn giving a speech to the soldiers and then it flashes to Eowyn (Dernhelm), which I didn't quit understand and was hoping they were two different scenes meshed together for the trailer. I say this, because at the time Dernhelm is in battle, Aragorn is with the Grey Company. So, hopefully that speech he was giving was in front of the Black Gate or was separate from Dernhelm's scene.

Either way, I am sure I will enjoy the movie for what it is regardless...

See - my favorite book was Fellowship and Jackson compelely screwed that book up. My feeling about RotK is now based on passed experience with the two other films. Eowyn feeding Arargown and Aragorn hating it,, Merry and Pippin, Faramir, Elrond, Arwen. It all sucks in my mind. He screwed up on capturing the heart and soul of Lord of the Rings - as I said when FotR came out. This is just going to confirm it for people.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Read that Marty's Spoilers link that was provided above by kennebecc. The first couple pages a guy answers a bunch of questions after seeing the movie and it's not the review that was posted above. He answers a lot of the questions we have all been asking lately.

Denethor running through the courtyard on fire and jumping off the wall?!

I'm extremely glad that from what I have heard PJ didn't make Grey Havens a cheese scene. (episode 1 anakin leaving mom)

[Dúnedain]

Here is something else interesting that was stated in that thread:

GimliBrokeMyNeck, Who really stands out? FOTR had Boromir TT had Gollum ROTK has ... I'd say the hobbits