JFK Remembered, 40 years later... :(

[Dúnedain]

Well, I wasn't alive during this, but loving history and even being an American, JFK was a man that was often revered. All this week, the history channel has been running specials on the JFK Assassination and tonight there will be a special on the life of JFK. It is sickening that even to this day, 40 years later, the cover up of his death still looms on. As I sit here typing I just saw a picture of JFK laying on a table dead with two entrance wounds, one in his throat and the other on his right temple. Now I don't know who was involved in his killing, as there are so many possibilities from the information that has out over the years, but I do know Oswald was not the only gunman, if he was even truly one at all. Also, if you watch the video his head went back and to the right. If he were shot from the back, which is where Oswald was supposedly in the Book Depository, JFK's head would have gone forward. The fact that he also had an entrance wound in his throat stems that a shot must have come from the front.

On from that, the secret service detail was lacking, the fact that the agents were not on the side of his car or in front of it, opened him up. The driver of the car also almost brings the car to a stop allowing more shots to be fired. Another reason why shots had to have come from the front is that the policemen who were on motorcycles directly behind the President's car had chunks of brain and skull on them, plus the car was later taken apart and the person who did so noted in writings he passed down to family that the windshield had a bullet hole in it where it came from the front. This bullet hole was also noted by witnesses at the hospital. Not to mention but all 16 doctors who saw JFK afterwards said there was a big hole in the back of his head, thus showing and exit wound, meaning the bullet had to come from the front. However, the autopsy photos don't show this. Those doctors were shown that picture and said that is not what they saw...

Now outside of all of that stuff, our country changed that day in many ways. For the first time in the public eye in American history, we saw the public execution of our leader. It wasn't like it was in the past where the everyday citizen could read about such things in the newspaper days afterward. It was scene in real time and reported across the nation in the same fashion. The American citizen also realized that the government wasn't as clean as was once thought, and that at anytime our life and republic could be changed with the snap of a finger. Yes we have fought wars and such where people saw various things, but to view the murder of your President and have so many unanswered questions looming over it is another thing. Now 40 years later, nothing has changed. Those who know things have spoken and written what they know and theories have come from them, and yet there still remains things that just don't make sense based on the governmental stance. Any normal person can watch the video and see that the findings of the Warren Commission just cannot be. Whether you are a hard nosed believer in the Warren Commissions findings or a Conspiracy Theorist, the fact of the matter is, not all truths have been lain forward and on November 22, 1963, America changed forever...

[crickhollow]

have you perchance been watching the History Channel documentaries on the subject? Interesting stuff...

What do you think of the theory that LBJ and J.Edgar Hoover were behind the assasination?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by crickhollow
have you perchance been watching the History Channel documentaries on the subject? Interesting stuff...

What do you think of the theory that LBJ and J.Edgar Hoover were behind the assasination?

Yeah I've been watching it all week

I tell you, that theory about LBJ and Hoover is pretty solid, especially with all of the things that they backed it up with. It makes a lot of sense too, especially when you couple that with the lacking security detail. It's also especially weird how a lot of the ties to LBJ started dying soon thereafter as well...

[Sister Golden Hair]

I was watching a special on ABC the other night about this. Dunedain, I don't know about what they said on the History channel, but on ABC they showed a computer animation of the assasination, and the bullet wound to his throat was an exit wound. He was shot in the back, right below the neck, The bullet came out his throat and continued on a path until it struck Govener Conally in the back, just under the armpit. It then exited out his right breast and hit him in the hand. It had a great deal to do with the positions they were sitting in according to forenzic studies. They said then that the fatal shot was fired, which struck JFK in the head. The big questions are: where were they fired from? And, how many shooters were there? Some expert investigators believe that the shot to his back was indeed fired from the book depository, and that the fatal shot was fired from the direction of the grassy knoll. I just don't think we will ever know the truth. I don't believe that Oswald acted alone, and I have always thought LBJ may have played a role in it. I have lived to see a lot of history unfold on live tv, including Ruby killing Oswald. It's a shame that JFK and RFK never got the chance to show their leadership qualities. I believe they were great men that had great dreams.

Just to reflect a bit on that day. I was 8 when it happened. I was at school, and I remember them telling us that he had died and that we were to go straight home. When I got home, my mom was sitting in front of the tv crying. I remember everything closing down and the streets being empty of traffic. You went outside and there was an omenous quiet. It was very wierd, and a very sad day.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I was watching a special on ABC the other night about this. Dunedain, I don't know about what they said on the History channel, but on ABC they showed a computer animation of the assasination, and the bullet wound to his throat was an exit wound. He was shot in the back, right below the neck, The bullet came out his throat and continued on a path until it struck Govener Conally in the back, just under the armpit. It then exited out his right breast and hit him in the hand. It had a great deal to do with the positions they were sitting in according to forenzic studies. They said then that the fatal shot was fired, which struck JFK in the head. The big questions are: where were they fired from? And, how many shooters were there? Some expert investigators believe that the shot to his back was indeed fired from the book depository, and that the fatal shot was fired from the direction of the grassy knoll. I just don't think we will ever know the truth. I don't believe that Oswald acted alone, and I have always thought LBJ may have played a role in it. I have lived to see a lot of history unfold on live tv, including Ruby killing Oswald. It's a shame that JFK and RFK never got the chance to show their leadership qualities. I believe they were great men that had great dreams.

Just to reflect a bit on that day. I was 8 when it happened. I was at school, and I remember them telling us that he had died and that we were to go straight home. When I got home, my mom was sitting in front of the tv crying. I remember everything closing down and the streets being empty of traffic. You went outside and there was an omenous quiet. It was very wierd, and a very sad day.

Even if they think "the magic bullet" passed through kennedy and into the guy in front of him that still doesn't say why and how his head went backwards when he was shot. The Book depository was behind Kennedy. When he was shot, as you can see on the video, his head goes backwards. It would defy physics if his head went backwards after being shot from behind...

That ABC thing has already caught a lot of flack, because of how they contrived that computer program. All the doctors that saw JFK have said that the throat wound was an entrance wound.

For example:

Peter Jennings and ABC claim to have solved the case - using the flawed research and computer graphics of one "researcher" to prove that no shots came from the front. Ask yourself: How does a bullet on a downward trajectory striking the President several inches below the collar "exit" his throat? Remember those who actually saw the back wound, and tell us that it was not where single-bullet theorists need it to be.

Here is a good site that has compiled a ton of information:

http://www.jfk-info.com/

[Dúnedain]

ABC only contradicts themselves with this video, which you can watch here:

ABC video

Now, they do make it look as though the shot in his throat comes from behind, but doctors have said the placement of the bullet doesn't make sense. However, even if that shot were true, then fine. However watch the video further. The "second shot" shows JFK's head going backwards. It defies physics and logic for a head to go backwards when being shot from behind, so as far as I am concerned for ABC to say that Oswald was the lone shooter and their computer proves it is a far stretch, lol. Look at the video ABC!!


*EDIT* Also, I forgot to mention, they found someone elses fingerprint where Oswald was supposedly standing in the Book Depository and it also took them almost 5 days to find Oswald's "smudged" fingerprint on the gun...

*EDIT AGAIN* LOL go to the ABCnews message board, people are ripping them apart, lol

http://boards.abcnews.go.com/cgi/abc...ST&room=gm_jfk

[Dúnedain]

Someone made a good point at another forum:

Bullets don't stay intacted.

You can't tell me that a bullet can go through two bodies, hitting a backing bones and still stay intacted. And then finding the bullet on a gurney by some unknown person..... SOMETHINGS FISHY!!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Where did the bullet come from that shot Conally?

[HOBBIT]

haha the history channel is great for those conspiracy theories and aliens created the pyramids, atlantis exists, etc.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Hobbit
haha the history channel is great for those conspiracy theories and aliens created the pyramids, atlantis exists, etc.
___________________________________________

True, but it's also great for shows debunking some of those theories, and for solid historical/present-day discussions (esp. Sunday mornings), and their running analysis"History or Hollywood?"

Frankly, if I had to choose between some of the noted discrepencies/shortcomings of the official line on the assassination (see some commentaries above) and the silly "single bullet" theory of our senior senator from Pennsylvania, I'll take the former.

By the way, does any state in the U.S. have a worse pair of senators then the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? And I don't say that because of party. There are sound (if quite conservative) Republican senators, (McCain and Hagel) for two. Instead we have Specter-afraid of upsetting anyone on anything, and Santorum-firmly in the middle of the far, far, far, right wing.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
haha the history channel is great for those conspiracy theories and aliens created the pyramids, atlantis exists, etc.

Apparently you don't watch the History Channel then. They are one of the best sources for actual history and not what has been forced-fed bs over the years.

The JFK presentation isn't a conspiracy theory, the conspiracy was the warren commission, not those who present evidence that lead toward the real assassination...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Where did the bullet come from that shot Conally?

I don't know There is hardly any attention given to that, I'll try and find some info

[HOBBIT]

i watch the history channel often. interesting stuff.

the things they have on there varry in credibility though. they often have many documentaries that contradict eachother.

it is still a good source and entertaining..

if you watched it often you'd see that they have stuff related to aliens and atlantas, ghosts et all often mixed in with all the other history.

they need good rating too, i guess.

I love that channel!

Haven't watched it in several weeks though - turned it on tonight, and sure enough its all on Kennedy. LJ hired assasains to kill kennedy? hmmm .

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
if you watched it often you'd see that they have stuff related to aliens and atlantas, ghosts et all often mixed in with all the other history.

History channel is always on my tv, lol. Guess it's the History Major in me

The alien and atlantis stuff doesn't knock it's credibility, cuz it's on a show called "Histories Mysteries" and stuff like that. They never say "Aliens exist, blah blah blah" lol. They just report and tell the stories of people who have "witnessed" things like that. As far as the Atlantis thing, I do have to say they have put together some good stuff on possibilities of where it could have been and stuff.

[zinnite]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
the things they have on there varry in credibility though. they often have many documentaries that contradict eachother.

The fact that there is contradiction doesn't automatically affect credibility. The field is not made up of homogenous, monolithic ideas--it's always in flux, and there are always raging debates. That's why I love it.

Glad to see a fellow history major at the 'Moot, Dúnedain!

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by zinnite
The fact that there is contradiction doesn't automatically affect credibility. The field is not made up of homogenous, monolithic ideas--it's always in flux, and there are always raging debates. That's why I love it.

Glad to see a fellow history major at the 'Moot, Dúnedain!

two different statements: 1. the shows on the history channel varry in levels credibility. 2. many documentaries contradict eachother.


i did not not say there was any relation

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Oroginally posted by zinnite
Glad to see a fellow history major at the 'Moot, Dúnedain!
_________________________________________

Make that three! La Salle University B. A.
Temple U. M.A.

While I like much of the programs of the History Channel my brother refers to it as "The War Channel". So, okay, they're a liitle obsessed about W.W. II.

As for the Kennedy Assassination, and more generally MLK and RFK, I've mused on a theory that, especially since Bobby was whacked we've been living in a rather unlikely alternate world (and one not particularly for the better). I know (partly thanks to the History Channel) that Bobby Kennedy had certain abrasive qualities, but he might have been the right man for the times, as was, generally, Teddy Roosevelt for the early 20th century U.S. I admit the Panama Canal grab was tacky, but even in foreign affairs TR did have pluses (ex. settling the Russo-Japanese War).
And it seems to me his social philosophy and program was soooo much more astute then that of the present crowd in Washington.

Sorry for rant, but that's how I feel about how less sensitive to the needs of most of the American people U.S. politicians seem to be in comparison to their European, Canadian, or Anzac counterparts.

[Valandil]

I'm not certain of this... but did I hear once that some of the findings of the Warren Commission were sealed for 50 years?

Not sure why that would be... but I guess we just have 10 more years to go. Er... but that's probably from the date of their report. When was the report made?

Or am I totally wrong about the sealed findings?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
I'm not certain of this... but did I hear once that some of the findings of the Warren Commission were sealed for 50 years?

Not sure why that would be... but I guess we just have 10 more years to go. Er... but that's probably from the date of their report. When was the report made?

Or am I totally wrong about the sealed findings?

Not sure if it is the Warren Commission documents, but in 2020, and 2028 all documents will be released, or are suppose to be...

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Oroginally posted by zinnite
Glad to see a fellow history major at the 'Moot, Dúnedain!
_________________________________________

Make that three! La Salle University B. A.
Temple U. M.A.

make if four, I'm graduating in the spring w/ my B.A., that is, if I can pass Historiography.

And hey, while you're all remembering JFK this weekend, light a candle for C.S. Lewis, too, will ya?