Polygamy

Arien the Maia · 11-18-2003, 11:35 PM

What are your opinions on it? Should countries allow it or not and why?

Daisy Baggins · 11-19-2003, 02:19 AM

From everything that I've read and experienced, polygamy would be a very bad idea. It is hard enough for two people to get along. If another person was added it would make life a whole lot harder.

In Christian tradition, monogamy is the norm. I believe that most societies today are also monogamous;however, in the Muslim faith, a man may have up to four wives.

Arien the Maia · 11-19-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daisy Baggins
From everything that I've read and experienced, polygamy would be a very bad idea. It is hard enough for two people to get along. If another person was added it would make life a whole lot harder.

In Christian tradition, monogamy is the norm. I believe that most societies today are also monogamous;however, in the Muslim faith, a man may have up to four wives.

I saw a show on Tv last year about a Moron man who had 3 wives and was getting married to a fourth...he had like 15 kids total too...In my opinion it was sad and depriving to the other wives who had to share there husband

Dúnedain · 11-19-2003, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
In my opinion it was sad and depriving to the other wives who had to share there husband

Well they are moron's for wanting that lifestyle though...ya know?

Arien the Maia · 11-19-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Well they are moron's for wanting that lifestyle though...ya know?

I agree....I'm not sure if there are any benefits to polygamy and I don't know why they do it...does anyone know why Mormons have polygamy?

Cirdan · 11-19-2003, 02:06 PM

By all means, we must protect people from their own inability to make good choices.

Maybe the government should tell us how much ice cream we can eat or which majors we can take in college. Freedom is just such a bother anyway.

Polygamy is usually found where there is a bias in the population with regards to sex;either is social class or in ratio. It serves little real purpose except to create a long proportion of socially disenfranchised singles, such as in Muslim cultures. Some blame the terrorist activities on the large numbers of single men without a partner due to low social status. Might be a stretch.

The Mormans outlawed polygamy in order for Utah to become a state. There are still sects that practise it, but it is more of a form of status than lifestyle choice. The brides are usually very young and not necessarily completely willing participants.

***Valandil*** · 11-19-2003, 02:38 PM

Cirdan is right about the Mormons and their offshoot groups that still practice polygamy... AND about the brides. Those brides are often also prob quite unaware of the state of things in the "outside world"... these groups are so insular.

Ah, our "brave new world"... looks a lot like the "old world"!

Insidious Rex · 11-19-2003, 03:15 PM

My goodness the culture bias in here is so thick you could cut it with a knife. I love the "anyone who doesnt live like me is a moron" mentality its really quite amusing. Cirdan i do hope you are sticking to only vanilla. Dont make me send the thought police over there for you.

***Valandil*** · 11-19-2003, 03:36 PM

Well I-Rex, good thing at least YOU are smarter than all the rest of us!

(ed: PS - do you dispute the points made about Mormon offshoot groups?)

BeardofPants · 11-19-2003, 04:29 PM

I am inclined to agree with I-Rex. The cultural bias is very strong in here. Why are we so keen to impose our monogamous views over polygamy? To all intents and purposes, hominids probably started out using that model before switching over to monogamy (and fairly recently at that.) Polygamy does not have to about sexual subordination - and the muslim world is perhaps not the best example to be had for polygamy.

***Valandil*** · 11-19-2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I am inclined to agree with I-Rex. The cultural bias is very strong in here.

Maybe so... but cultural biases are part of what we are too, aren't they? And can we discuss things from that viewpoint without feeling like the viewpoint isn't valid?

I-Rex's post (and perhaps I reacted too strongly, sorry if I did so) sounds to me like the kind of thinking that has bought into the contemporary dogma that 'all value systems are equal' to such an extent, that when an ACTUAL values system, with real convictions, rears its head, it is to be treated with contempt and condescension. To me, that seems both unjustified and ironic.

That's how it reads to me, anyway... am I misreading you, I-Rex?

And... BoP - are you calling for a return to polygamy yourself? What would be YOUR cultural biases about it... including those garnered from your study? Good thing or bad? Or is it "wrong" to label it one way or the other? Would you see the validity of such an arrangement... in today's modern society?

Gwaimir Windgem · 11-19-2003, 04:43 PM

Well, the only ones I can think of are some Mormons, some Muslims, and some primitive cultures; in the first two, I'm almost certain it's man-many women only, and in the latter, the only ones I've heard of had it that way, though I'm sure that there are several that aren't. Overall, however, it seems to me that polygamy normally equates haremism. Of course, it isn't always that way, but I definitely think that haremism is wrong; I can't see how it could help but make women into property. As for true, unbiased polygamy, the only objections I can think of are related to my religion (yes, the sexual image of union between Christ and Church

, and also in an unusual way the sanctity of marriage), so I don't think I'd call it wrong for the secular, public standard. Daisy does bring up a good point, but I think that would apply more to personal choice than legislation. So, upon a cursory examination, I see no reason for polygamy to be illegal, except for a lingering influence of Christianity, or the "judgmental bastards", as one person put it so well.

I-Rex: I know this sounds silly, but I'm not sure: did you mean, "moron", or "mormon"?

BoP: Could you offer us a better example of polygamy?

BeardofPants · 11-19-2003, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
And... BoP - are you calling for a return to polygamy yourself? What would be YOUR cultural biases about it... including those garnered from your study? Good thing or bad? Or is it "wrong" to label it one way or the other? Would you see the validity of such an arrangement... in today's modern society?

No, I'm not calling for a return to Polygamy. And I am personally quite happy with a monogamous relationship. Having said that, if people are happily participating in a polygamous relationship, then why just assume that it would be mentally unhealthy for them? I guess I'm just against enforcing a westernised headset onto someone who is happily practising against what we would consider normal. Where's the harm if there are no injured parties? (unhappy, unwilling women being browbeaten into something they don't want to do is another thing entirely...)

No, Gwamir, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, other than some obscure pacific island practises in Melanesia...

Gwaimir Windgem · 11-19-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

I guess I'm just against enforcing a westernised headset onto someone who is happily practising against what we would consider normal.

I completely agree. One thing I'm strongly against is westernization of other cultures.

Gwaimir Windgem · 11-19-2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

No, Gwamir, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, other than some obscure pacific island practises in Melanesia...

Darn, I'd be v. interested to hear about the good side.

Insidious Rex · 11-19-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
Well I-Rex, good thing at least YOU are smarter than all the rest of us!

its only useful in theory. Not in practice.

Quote:

(ed: PS - do you dispute the points made about Mormon offshoot groups?)

about their brides being clueless? Im sure a lot of them are. Especially when they are marrying 13 year olds and what not. But in theory I don’t see a problem with multiple marriages. Or group marriages. And I think its wrong to impose a standard over others simply because its acceptable to the majority.

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
Maybe so... but cultural biases are part of what we are too, aren't they? And can we discuss things from that viewpoint without feeling like the viewpoint isn't valid?

that’s fine. But when people say “I don’t understand these idiots who don’t think like me” you kinda lose any aspect of discussion and it becomes just a bunch of biased people reinforcing their biases. Maybe if we start with “well I think this is wrong because…” instead of “what morons”.

Quote:

I-Rex's post (and perhaps I reacted too strongly, sorry if I did so) sounds to me like the kind of thinking that has bought into the contemporary dogma that 'all value systems are equal' to such an extent, that when an ACTUAL values system, with real convictions, rears its head, it is to be treated with contempt and condescension. To me, that seems both unjustified and ironic.

who defines these values? Was I bashing the fact that you have one wife? I don’t think I was. I was simply defending the minority here. I wasn’t even endorsing such practice I was simply defending THE RIGHT for people to live within their OWN cultural values without being told that they are wrong to the core because they don’t live like somebody else does. Is that not fair?

You do realize that if I was on a message board where the norm was polygamy and a bunch of people came on and started saying well those one wife people they are all morons well I would be the first there to defend you point of view despite the fact yer jumping all over me here. Now where is the irony again?

Quote:

I-Rex: I know this sounds silly, but I'm not sure: did you mean, "moron", or "mormon"?

yeah I had a half chuckle about the word play as well but I was referring to when Dúnedain said “Well they are moron's for wanting that lifestyle though...ya know?” Unless he was being tounge in cheek (I didn’t see a winky) or unless it was a typo (fruedian slip).

Ornelírë Mistë · 11-19-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
My goodness the culture bias in here is so thick you could cut it with a knife. I love the "anyone who doesnt live like me is a moron" mentality its really quite amusing. Cirdan i do hope you are sticking to only vanilla. Dont make me send the thought police over there for you.

Yay, someone has some sense. I too wouldnt call them morons. If it works out for them, that's great. If it doesn't, good luck to them, and good luck to their children. I also doubt that the man is legally married to all his wives.

***Valandil*** · 11-19-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
that’s fine. But when people say “I don’t understand these idiots who don’t think like me” you kinda lose any aspect of discussion and it becomes just a bunch of biased people reinforcing their biases. Maybe if we start with “well I think this is wrong because…” instead of “what morons”.

Ah... I begin to see where we're all misreading one another here. I think this all started with a typo in the 3rd post of this thread ('Moron' when I'm quite sure 'Mormon' was intended - a little light on the "m" keystroke!)... and the 4th post, I believe, WAS playing it up as a 'tongue-in-cheek' sort of thing - though without a smilie.

From there, we all went downhill.

Misunderstandings happen all too easily...

(edit: PS - in case that doesn't pass as an apology where you come from, let me make it clear: sorry if I said anything too strongly and got under anyone's skin while we were all not reading each other. In their own context, I stand by what I said... but I don't think I quite understood where everyone else was coming from when I said them. Start over?)

Insidious Rex · 11-19-2003, 05:29 PM

Heres a solution:

All hands up who think mormons are morons.

***Valandil*** · 11-19-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Heres a solution:

All hands up who think mormons are morons.

er... we COULD do that... but methinks it leads us right back down the same slope of slipperiness!

11-18-2003, 11:35 PM	#1
Arien the Maia Fëanáro's Fire Mistress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,423	Polygamy What are your opinions on it? Should countries allow it or not and why?

11-19-2003, 02:06 PM	#6
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	By all means, we must protect people from their own inability to make good choices. Maybe the government should tell us how much ice cream we can eat or which majors we can take in college. Freedom is just such a bother anyway. Polygamy is usually found where there is a bias in the population with regards to sex;either is social class or in ratio. It serves little real purpose except to create a long proportion of socially disenfranchised singles, such as in Muslim cultures. Some blame the terrorist activities on the large numbers of single men without a partner due to low social status. Might be a stretch. The Mormans outlawed polygamy in order for Utah to become a state. There are still sects that practise it, but it is more of a form of status than lifestyle choice. The brides are usually very young and not necessarily completely willing participants. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

11-19-2003, 03:15 PM	#8
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	My goodness the culture bias in here is so thick you could cut it with a knife. I love the "anyone who doesnt live like me is a moron" mentality its really quite amusing. Cirdan i do hope you are sticking to only vanilla. Dont make me send the thought police over there for you. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

11-19-2003, 03:36 PM	#9
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Well I-Rex, good thing at least YOU are smarter than all the rest of us! (ed: PS - do you dispute the points made about Mormon offshoot groups?) Last edited by Valandil : 11-19-2003 at 03:45 PM.

11-19-2003, 04:29 PM	#10
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I am inclined to agree with I-Rex. The cultural bias is very strong in here. Why are we so keen to impose our monogamous views over polygamy? To all intents and purposes, hominids probably started out using that model before switching over to monogamy (and fairly recently at that.) Polygamy does not have to about sexual subordination - and the muslim world is perhaps not the best example to be had for polygamy. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-19-2003, 02:19 AM	#2
Daisy Baggins Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 26	From everything that I've read and experienced, polygamy would be a very bad idea. It is hard enough for two people to get along. If another person was added it would make life a whole lot harder. In Christian tradition, monogamy is the norm. I believe that most societies today are also monogamous;however, in the Muslim faith, a man may have up to four wives.

11-19-2003, 02:38 PM	#7
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Cirdan is right about the Mormons and their offshoot groups that still practice polygamy... AND about the brides. Those brides are often also prob quite unaware of the state of things in the "outside world"... these groups are so insular. Ah, our "brave new world"... looks a lot like the "old world"!

11-19-2003, 04:43 PM	#12
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Well, the only ones I can think of are some Mormons, some Muslims, and some primitive cultures; in the first two, I'm almost certain it's man-many women only, and in the latter, the only ones I've heard of had it that way, though I'm sure that there are several that aren't. Overall, however, it seems to me that polygamy normally equates haremism. Of course, it isn't always that way, but I definitely think that haremism is wrong; I can't see how it could help but make women into property. As for true, unbiased polygamy, the only objections I can think of are related to my religion (yes, the sexual image of union between Christ and Church , and also in an unusual way the sanctity of marriage), so I don't think I'd call it wrong for the secular, public standard. Daisy does bring up a good point, but I think that would apply more to personal choice than legislation. So, upon a cursory examination, I see no reason for polygamy to be illegal, except for a lingering influence of Christianity, or the "judgmental bastards", as one person put it so well. I-Rex: I know this sounds silly, but I'm not sure: did you mean, "moron", or "mormon"? BoP: Could you offer us a better example of polygamy? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

11-19-2003, 05:29 PM	#19
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Heres a solution: All hands up who think mormons are morons. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Homosexual marriage II	klatukatt	General Messages	736	05-15-2013 01:15 PM
Multi-culturalism boon or bane?	afro-elf	General Messages	411	10-25-2010 06:16 PM
Homosexual marriage	Rían	General Messages	999	12-06-2006 04:46 PM
The Official US President Election Thread	Insidious Rex	General Messages	896	11-05-2004 03:41 PM
He's engaged!?	Shanamir Duntak	General Messages	43	08-06-2001 12:25 AM