Scenes PJ got right

thranduil · 11-07-2003, 12:45 PM

Everyone always complains that the "Flight to the Ford" with arwen was horrible, and there upset that Glorfindel was taken out. Think about this. If PJ kept Glorfindel and did the scene like the book, would you even appreciate it? Would you ever be gratefull that he did it, or just keep looking at the scenes he has changed. I am guessing some of us would just take the scene for grantite.

Like Bilbo's party for example, no one really talks about that scene. It really was great and pretty true to the book. Keeping dialog and everything. (Except two little hobbits lighting fireworks, and no flash when Bilbo puts on the ring.) But instead of talking about how good he portrayed this scene people just bag it. I for one think the Party scene was brilliant and PJ made it come to life like I had imagined it. He needs to get some credit for the scenes he made work.

Another scene is the banished Riders meeting Aragorn and company. Yes they hid behind rocks instead of blending in with their cloaks, but small changes really don't matter. The shot kept with the book and made an excellent scene.

There really are lots of great parts of the movies that Jackson certainly deserves his far share of respect, from some real tolkein fans.

flupke · 11-07-2003, 01:11 PM

you are absolutely right.
PJ did a great gob.
he made the characters come to life every time.
he made good scenes and realy good scenes.

you can't blame him.

Elfhelm · 11-07-2003, 01:16 PM

I wouldn't take any scene in the movie for granite. I have been advised not to interpret Tolkien in a metamorphical way. But I do object to excessive sedimentality in the Arwen scene.

Melko Belcha · 11-07-2003, 01:24 PM

The Flight to the Ford scene didn't bother me because Arwen replaced Glorfindel, it was not letting Frodo ride to the Fords himself and his confritation with the Nazgul. The scene in the book for me is a major part to the development of Frodo's character and much more cinematic then what was done in the film. In the book we have a wounded Frodo (a wound that would have overcome even the strongest of Men) standing up to the chief commander of the Dark Lord. And Frodo raising his sword and saying "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall nether the Ring nor me" and then the Witch king standing up in his saddle and pointing his sword toward Frodo and Frodo's sword shattering is much more cinematic and has much more tension then "If you want him come and claim him".

Now I will say there are some scenes that PJ hit perfect and did great tribute to the book, but it's because of those parts that make me hate the changes so much more. Every scene that he gets right just shows me how good the movie could have been if it would have been followed more closely. For every good scene captured from the book makes the additions that much worse.

thranduil · 11-07-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
In the book we have a wounded Frodo (a wound that would have overcome even the strongest of Men) standing up to the chief commander of the Dark Lord. And Frodo raising his sword and saying "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall nether the Ring nor me"

Lets see Frodo offered the ring to Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn (okay not really), a nazgul (ttt), man I don't see why he didn't just offer it to him.

Okay I agree it is a great part, showing how brave and willing Frodo can be.

Another scene that was pretty sweet was entering Khazad dum. Admit! it was portrayed just llike the book! The overflown lakes edges spreading far and to the edges of the mountains. And a puzzling entrance used by the elves. A creature that come from under the mountain into the flooded valley lake.

I see your point Melko, with every good scene it does show how well he could have done the scenes he changed. But I try to think of It as the good scenes over power the ones that have been changed. In a sense make up for the others. I think that good scenes have more weight than bad scenes.

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
The Flight to the Ford scene didn't bother me because Arwen replaced Glorfindel, it was not letting Frodo ride to the Fords himself and his confritation with the Nazgul. The scene in the book for me is a major part to the development of Frodo's character and much more cinematic then what was done in the film. In the book we have a wounded Frodo (a wound that would have overcome even the strongest of Men) standing up to the chief commander of the Dark Lord. And Frodo raising his sword and saying "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall nether the Ring nor me" and then the Witch king standing up in his saddle and pointing his sword toward Frodo and Frodo's sword shattering is much more cinematic and has much more tension then "If you want him come and claim him".

Exactly what I think. I also believe that. Frodo is made to seem more helpless in the movies. Where is that inner courage that Tolkien focusus on.

But I have to agree with thranduil about Moria. It was the best, period. The whole mines were extrodinarily good. The gates were as Tolkien himself drew them And we can't forget how well the Balrog was depicted. It followed every single detail that Tolkien wrote, from the sword to the many pronged whip to the shadow and flame.

Bacchus · 11-07-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cassius
And we can't forget how well the Balrog was depicted. It followed every single detail that Tolkien wrote, from the sword to the many pronged whip to the shadow and flame.

Not to mention those appendages on its back...

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-07-2003, 02:51 PM

I thought you would bring that up.

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bacchus
Not to mention those appendages on its back...

er?

The wings?

making no sense, must...rack...brain...for...answer...

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-07-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cassius
er?

The wings?

making no sense, must...rack...brain...for...answer...

Yes, of course that's what he means.

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 04:08 PM

I was just confused, since I have run across people (not neccessarliy on this site) that think that the spine of fire is an appendage of some sort.

I am as confused as you are with that one but I had to make sure. It still is a little embarrassing though...

But yes, my point is that I doubt anyone could have done better, as you will/would read in my Khazad Dum thread.

Bacchus · 11-07-2003, 04:12 PM

Sorry, Cassius, i was making a joke. The wings/no wings debate is legendary. My personal opinion is that balrogs had wings, and i was having fun with the fact that PJ agrees with me.

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 04:28 PM

The winged debate isn't really active in my area (where I live). I have to say I agree with you about it. Jokes are fun when made in good cheer.

*side note* would anyone respond to a thread (in a different forum) about how the Balrog was woken up?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-07-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cassius
The winged debate isn't really active in my area (where I live). I have to say I agree with you about it. Jokes are fun when made in good cheer.

*side note* would anyone respond to a thread (in a different forum) about how the Balrog was woken up?

You may want to do a search first. IIRC, there are threads about that. If you don't find anything more recent than six months old, than feel free.

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You may want to do a search first. IIRC, there are threads about that. If you don't find anything more recent than six months old, than feel free.

I shall do so, thanks for the input.

One more thing about what Jackson did right was the appearance of the ringwraiths. I have a figure of one on my T.V., and it is just so cool looking. Did you know that the song for the wraiths is sung in the old human language?

Cassius · 11-07-2003, 04:48 PM

Oops, i forgot what IIRC was

***azalea*** · 11-07-2003, 10:28 PM

If I Remember Correctly.

Lalaith · 11-08-2003, 05:53 AM

I have to agree, all in all it was a really good movie.

jerseydevil · 11-08-2003, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thranduil

Another scene that was pretty sweet was entering Khazad dum. Admit! it was portrayed just llike the book! The overflown lakes edges spreading far and to the edges of the mountains. And a puzzling entrance used by the elves. A creature that come from under the mountain into the flooded valley lake.

Entering Moria is not that accurate - there are no dwarf skeletons lying around. Most of it is okay before that part except for gandalf ridiculousl pushing the gates of moria inward to try opening them - when he knows full well they only open outward.

Quote:

I see your point Melko, with every good scene it does show how well he could have done the scenes he changed. But I try to think of It as the good scenes over power the ones that have been changed. In a sense make up for the others. I think that good scenes have more weight than bad scenes.

i disagree - because the screw-ups have a long lasting affect to the whole plot. There is no way he can fix aragorn in my eyes, Frodo has wasted time being dragged to Osgiliath - not to mention trying to GIVE the ring to the nazgul who just ends up flying away. There are too many character changes and plot changes for me to be statisfied and right now I wish the xena-elf would just die.

I also agree with Melko - i did not have a problem with Arwen or anyone taking Glorfindel's place. As far as Lord of the Rings was concerned he was a minor character overall. My problem was with taking the strenght of frodo and giving it to xena-elf. Frodo needed that moment for character development.

The Balrog scene was really one of the few scenes I liked. I liked the scenary of the Shire - but gandalf and his stupid facial expressions annoyed me - he was more clown than wizard. I hated Merry and Pippin - who were my favorite characters in the book. The party was good - except for again - the town idiots - merry and Pippin. They seemed pretty braindead. The camera shot going down into the caverns of isengard was cool - but then it continues on and follows that stupid moth up to orthanc. Rivendell was cool - but then you have the ridiculous council and arrgogant Elrond. Not to mention that stupid Narsil scene where Aragorn is all weeping that he's weak and is afraid of his heritage. The Balrog was my favorite scene - but then Gandalf does that stupid fall thing. Lothlorien was okay - except then you have Haldir with a double chin and five o'clock shadow and the ice queen Galadriel.

There I added some stuff that I liked - but the hated moments far out weigh what I like in the movie.

***Valandil*** · 11-08-2003, 06:31 AM

JD, sounds like you might be happier if you just skip the third... or are you planning to go anyway?

11-07-2003, 12:45 PM	#1
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	Scenes PJ got right Everyone always complains that the "Flight to the Ford" with arwen was horrible, and there upset that Glorfindel was taken out. Think about this. If PJ kept Glorfindel and did the scene like the book, would you even appreciate it? Would you ever be gratefull that he did it, or just keep looking at the scenes he has changed. I am guessing some of us would just take the scene for grantite. Like Bilbo's party for example, no one really talks about that scene. It really was great and pretty true to the book. Keeping dialog and everything. (Except two little hobbits lighting fireworks, and no flash when Bilbo puts on the ring.) But instead of talking about how good he portrayed this scene people just bag it. I for one think the Party scene was brilliant and PJ made it come to life like I had imagined it. He needs to get some credit for the scenes he made work. Another scene is the banished Riders meeting Aragorn and company. Yes they hid behind rocks instead of blending in with their cloaks, but small changes really don't matter. The shot kept with the book and made an excellent scene. There really are lots of great parts of the movies that Jackson certainly deserves his far share of respect, from some real tolkein fans.

11-07-2003, 01:16 PM	#3
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	I wouldn't take any scene in the movie for granite. I have been advised not to interpret Tolkien in a metamorphical way. But I do object to excessive sedimentality in the Arwen scene. __________________ cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 11-07-2003 at 01:17 PM.

11-07-2003, 01:24 PM	#4
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	The Flight to the Ford scene didn't bother me because Arwen replaced Glorfindel, it was not letting Frodo ride to the Fords himself and his confritation with the Nazgul. The scene in the book for me is a major part to the development of Frodo's character and much more cinematic then what was done in the film. In the book we have a wounded Frodo (a wound that would have overcome even the strongest of Men) standing up to the chief commander of the Dark Lord. And Frodo raising his sword and saying "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall nether the Ring nor me" and then the Witch king standing up in his saddle and pointing his sword toward Frodo and Frodo's sword shattering is much more cinematic and has much more tension then "If you want him come and claim him". Now I will say there are some scenes that PJ hit perfect and did great tribute to the book, but it's because of those parts that make me hate the changes so much more. Every scene that he gets right just shows me how good the movie could have been if it would have been followed more closely. For every good scene captured from the book makes the additions that much worse. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

11-07-2003, 02:51 PM	#8
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	I thought you would bring that up. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

11-07-2003, 04:08 PM	#11
Cassius Enting Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Erebor Posts: 58	I was just confused, since I have run across people (not neccessarliy on this site) that think that the spine of fire is an appendage of some sort. I am as confused as you are with that one but I had to make sure. It still is a little embarrassing though... But yes, my point is that I doubt anyone could have done better, as you will/would read in my Khazad Dum thread. __________________ -In the public house lavatory, incoming traffic has the right of way. (Da) -Don't understand, Just comprehend. (Cassius)

11-07-2003, 01:11 PM	#2
flupke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Between this world and reality, or was it the other way around Posts: 70	you are absolutely right. PJ did a great gob. he made the characters come to life every time. he made good scenes and realy good scenes. you can't blame him.

11-07-2003, 04:12 PM	#12
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	Sorry, Cassius, i was making a joke. The wings/no wings debate is legendary. My personal opinion is that balrogs had wings, and i was having fun with the fact that PJ agrees with me. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

11-07-2003, 04:28 PM	#13
Cassius Enting Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Erebor Posts: 58	The winged debate isn't really active in my area (where I live). I have to say I agree with you about it. Jokes are fun when made in good cheer. side note would anyone respond to a thread (in a different forum) about how the Balrog was woken up? __________________ -In the public house lavatory, incoming traffic has the right of way. (Da) -Don't understand, Just comprehend. (Cassius)

11-07-2003, 04:48 PM	#16
Cassius Enting Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Erebor Posts: 58	Oops, i forgot what IIRC was __________________ -In the public house lavatory, incoming traffic has the right of way. (Da) -Don't understand, Just comprehend. (Cassius)

11-07-2003, 10:28 PM	#17
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	If I Remember Correctly.

11-08-2003, 05:53 AM	#18
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I have to agree, all in all it was a really good movie. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

11-08-2003, 06:31 AM	#20
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	JD, sounds like you might be happier if you just skip the third... or are you planning to go anyway?

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