Self-Hate

[Linaewen]

I've heard that the traits that humans dislike/are repelled by in other people, are often characteristics that they detest in themselves.

Now I'm guessing that this would be on a sub-conscious level, because I, at least, don't actively think 'Oh, wow, she's really arrogant, just like me. I don't like that about her.' (Or something)

So if this theory may be true (I wouldn't know), does this ever happen on a conscious level? (Perhaps not like the aforesaid example, but you get my drift)

I think that this theory is true to an extent. Certainly, some things that repel me in other people, I realise that I dislike in myself, such as perhaps my selfishness. Other times, I know I don't have some qualities that I detest, which I can find in other people.

I'm also fascinated by Hitler's alleged self-hatred. Presently, I can't recall many very good examples of this, but as soon as I do, I will. Wasn't his obsession with the domination of the Aryan race example of this, considering he wouldn't even be regarded as one [an Aryan]?
And what of his Jewish lineage- does his Anti-Semitism fanaticism indicate his self-hatred also?

What are your thoughts? Could someone who knows more about psychology shed some light onto this? This subject has been interesting me a great deal lately, and I'd just like to know.
Comments would be appreciated.

(PS: If I'm getting any facts wrong or whatever, please let me know. I don't know that much about either of these)

[Jonathan]

In various countries there are immigrants who wants to be seen upon as natives in the country they now live in. Some of them join racistic groups to sort of show people that they really belong to their new country. They start hating other people with the same ethnic background as themselves. I guess there's some subconscious self-hate there.

Hitler's Jewish lineage is just a rumour. Otherwize it would have been a good example of how someone of a different ethnic background tries to be more like the people around him, the 'Aryans' in this case.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Jonathan
In various countries there are immigrants who wants to be seen upon as natives in the country they now live in. Some of them join racistic groups to sort of show people that they really belong to their new country. They start hating other people with the same ethnic background as themselves. I guess there's some subconscious self-hate there.

That's an example of people being 'brainwashed', in a sense, isn't it? They're so convinced by these racist ideas that they begin to believe in it themselves. Or maybe they've just hated themselves from the start, without realising it.

Which reminds me of how easily people can be manipulated into thinking that something about themselves is 'abnormal' or 'wrong.' The junk that the Media feeds to people these days, especially adolescents, easily makes them feel bad about themselves. This is clear everywhere- do you realise who difficult it is for me to find someone in my age group who is happy with their weight? I am, but there are precious few others who are. And it's largely due to those stick-thin models we are forced to see day after day, on television, in magazines..
(Am I digressing here? No idea! )

[LuthienTinuviel]

that could very well be true.
i am extremely critical of myself (which is not always illustrated here) so there fore i am extremely critical of other people.
makes sense to me.

but then there's a back wards bit too:
i hate having an overlarge bum.. so i don't like kate moss?
haha

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Which reminds me of how easily people can be manipulated into thinking that something about themselves is 'abnormal' or 'wrong.' The junk that the Media feeds to people these days, especially adolescents, easily makes them feel bad about themselves. This is clear everywhere- do you realise who difficult it is for me to find someone in my age group who is happy with their weight? I am, but there are precious few others who are. And it's largely due to those stick-thin models we are forced to see day after day, on television, in magazines..
(Am I digressing here? No idea! )

The media's purpose is solely to sell things - whether it's a movie, magazine or tv show. They're going to present people on their covers and on the screen that attract people's eyes. I do NOT understand Kate Moss though. To me - skin and bones (also known as the heroin look) is NOT attractive.

Now Katie Holmes could sell anything..



But people have to realise - who many people actually look like her? Also - she goes out in NY just dressed normal and doesn't have her hair styled and all that. She doesn't look like her magazine covers when she goes to the store or when she's just relaxing.

People not only get information from the media on the way they should look or act - but they also get images of themselves from the people around them. It just matters how much they're going to take to heart and have it dictate their life. Are you going to let someone call you a jackass and let it bother you -or are you just not going care? The only people I care what they think - are people I talk to or know personally. If someone doesn't know me as a person - their opinion doesn't really concern me.

I do however wish I was in better shape for the beach and I would much rather be part black or mexican - so I had more of year round tan (my part Italian heritage helps though). I like being tan and I like being in better shape and I feel self conscious on the beach if I'm not.

I have come a long way though - when I was younger I even hated mirrors. I hated going into stores or malls that had mirrors all around. It might have been caused by what others thought of how I looked - but now I generally don't care. I still don't like pictures of myself though - but it's not a self hate thing - there are just certain things I wish I could change about myself that I can't.

I think hatred and self hatred is a very complicated thing. People's hatred and ridicule was the main motivating force behind all the school shootings (not guns). When people stop judging people by their weight, skin color, their voice, hair, clothing, money (which their is predudice on both sides) and all other things - then peace might be possible in the world. If people can't be civil to one another in the lunch room - how does anyone expect nations to be civil?

Here is the lyrics to a Jewel song that goes with hatred and self-hate...

Pieces Of You

She's an ugly girl, does it make you want to kill her?
She's an ugly girl, do you want to kick in her face?
She's an ugly girl, she doesn't pose a threat.
She's an ugly girl, does that make you feel safe?
Ugly girl, ugly girl, do you hate her
Cause she's pieces of you?

She's a pretty girl, does she make you think nasty thoughts?
She's a pretty girl, do you want to tie her down?
She's a pretty girl, do you call her a bitch?
She's a pretty girl, did she sleep with your whole town?
Pretty girl, pretty girl, do you hate her
Cause she's pieces of you?

You say he's a faggot, does it make you want to hurt him?
You say he's a faggot, do you want to bash in his brain?
You say he's a faggot, does he make you sick to your stomach?
You say he's a faggot, are you afraid you're just the same?
Faggot, Faggot, do you hate him
Cause he's pieces of you?

You say he's a Jew, does it mean that he's tight?
You say he's a Jew, do you want to hurt his kids tonight?
You say he's a Jew, he'll never wear that funny hat again.
You say he's a Jew as though being born were a sin.
Oh Jew, oh Jew, do you hate him
Cause he's pieces of you?

[Ragnarok]

I know that people with the mental disorder Social Anxiety Disorder, are very self conscious, and very critical of themselves. They often feel that they are being judged or scrutinized or feel ashamed of themselves because they don't fit with how the media shapes our society. Alot of them are unhappy with themselves and their self-image, which can lead to self-hate.

[Lizra]

ugh! Something about being older (you know all the horrible crap you gone through and suffered with) makes you quit hating yourself! After a certain age, it seems you start to really "love yourself"..warts, flaws and all! I think some "self hate" might come from the way young people are all thrown together in a big group (school) and compared with each other constantly for 12 or more years! It's not natural! As far as hating in others the things you hate in yourself...well..you relate best to what you "know" I guess!

[Starr Polish]

Ah, self hate. A subject that I sadly am rather familiar with...blah.

I do believe it can happen at a concious level, because I've done it before. I actually remember commenting to a friend "I don't like that girl because she reminds me of me." However, I've gone through fairly severe stages of self hate, mostly in junior high and my freshman year of high school. I mostly love myself now, but I still have moments of shame that creep up on me, telling me I'm a horrible person and shouldn't love myself because I'm not perfect. I'm getting better at supressing it though.

I think most self hate probably emerges around junior high, with that lovely onset of puberty and all. Junior high is horrible, I think, because everyone becomes so judgemental and hormonal. Being rejected from a group and having no friends is one of the worst feelings you could ever experience, and a lot of people go through that in junior high.

[Ragnarok]

Interesting song about self-hate.

Shadows Fall

Idle Hands

Just a word all it takes to set it off
Uncontrolled all restraint has been lost

Absorbing more than I can stand
Of these self defeating unreal demands
Giving into frustrations command
The devil makes good use with idle hands
Overwhelming desire to react

I am too far gone forever turning back

Looking for something to lash out at

Turning inward it is myself that I attack

The anger grows inside everyday
Unquechable I have become my own prey

From where has this rage been spawned?
Been building deep inside for far too long
Forgotten memories buried and hidden
creating my own emotional prison

Can it be that i have lost?
Control of my actions and my thoughts

[Anglorfin]

Self-hate eh? Well it can be bad but it also can be good. Since mostly everybody is familiar with reasons why it can be bad, I'll list a few things I have done in the past that turned self-hate into a constructive thing, or at least not the worst alternative.

#1 - If I couldn't find anybody to blame, I'd blame myself. It gives me good motivation to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it even though it's not really my problem.

#2 - Hating myself has prevented me from hating the rest of the world like all the hardcore cynics, and has kept me from going postal a long time ago.

#3 - Realizing that certain aspects of my personality are less than desireable, I consciously look for them in other people as a reminder of what NOT to do.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
I do believe it can happen at a concious level, because I've done it before. I actually remember commenting to a friend "I don't like that girl because she reminds me of me."

That reminds of me of this book character that I disliked intensely, perhaps because she was sort of like me. She was terrible. I realised that she was like me also, but I tried to convince myself that that wasn't true. On the other hand, my closest friend (whom I am very similar to), liked the character because she was like her. It was odd.

Good luck with battling the self-hatred, Starr. You too, anyone else who battles it. (Lucky Lizra!)

Being rejected from a group and having no friends is one of the worst feelings you could ever experience, and a lot of people go through that in junior high.

Yes, that's awful. That's another thing that causes self-hate- children can be so cruel, without even realising the damage that they cause, if they do something like that or bully another child.

Anglorfin, but is that really self-hate? (referring to point 3) IMO, it's not self-hate, but realising that one has faults, and should strive to get rid of them.

Ok, now I think I need a definition of 'self-hate'. (It's making my response to Anglorfin's post a bit difficult)
Just how much does one need to dislike something about themselves for it to be deemed 'self-hatred'? 'Cause there are some minor cases of someone disliking some aspect of themselves (which is normal), and I wouldn't call these 'self-hate'. Hate, IMO, is a very strong word. Therefore, if you hate yourself, it'd have to be pretty a pretty strong feeling of loathing.

[Starr Polish]

Actual self-hate to me is just complete and utter hatred of one's entire person, or believing that the bad aspects of yourself outweigh the good. Been there, done that. It's not a pleasant experience, of course. It's not a good thing to want to destroy yourself.

Thanks for your support on my battle with self-hate, but I'm definitely not nearly as extreme as I was in junior high and the beginning of high school. I think part of it is just growing up and realizing that everyone, including yourself, has good points and bad points. However, the bad points aren't necessarily unfixable, it's just a lot of work to change them. You also learn to accept that there are some aspects of your personality that you will never change. I have a tendency to be extremely sarcastic and insult everyone when I'm in a bad mood, and though I still do slip, I've improved greatly by trying to watch my mouth. I've also learned to recognize what I"m angry at, instead of directing the rage at myself.

[afro-elf]

....Reflection in someone's eye
Is all I see
I sometimes hate myself
I sometimes hate myself
I look into the future
Darkness lies ahead
A shadow of a man that once was
A shadow of a man that once was...


a verse from Ikon's Comdenation.


I broke out of my dark spell by realizing I am human and I will never match the ideals placed on me by myself, others, or society as a whole. Also, most other people won't either.

I can't beat myself up of for being imperfect. This does not mean surrender all an join the lost. I will err and fail and feeling inadequate. This is what binds us as people. It this well in which sympathy and compassions flows.

Maybe the sooner we realize that are all children of flesh and feelings and that we all hurt the better the world may be.

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
I've also learned to recognize what I"m angry at, instead of directing the rage at myself.

Ah, if only I could do that without wanting to bring down crippling bodily hurt to someone else. I'm a perfect case for someone who might develope multiple personality disorder in the future. I'm too quiet when I'm hating things.

[Linaewen]

Just a general question: if you were someone else, do you think that you would be friends with/like yourself? Why/why not?

I don't think I would- I'd probably find myself too annoying and self-centred.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I doubt it, as I don't especially like myself as it is.

[Ruinel]

Battle self-hatred? HA! I've stopped battling it and just accepted the fact that I hate myself, no matter what I do to make me like myself, it doesn't work.

[Elven Archer]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Just a general question: if you were someone else, do you think that you would be friends with/like yourself? Why/why not?

probably not. sometimes i wonder why my friends are friends with me. if i was someone else i think i'd find me annoying.

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Just a general question: if you were someone else, do you think that you would be friends with/like yourself? Why/why not?

I don't think I would- I'd probably find myself too annoying and self-centred.

Probably, a lot of people say that I'm so easygoing it's almost impossible not to like me. I guess if I wasn't myself then I'd be susceptible to my own charms . . .uhh yeah that made sense.

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by Anglorfin
Ah, if only I could do that without wanting to bring down crippling bodily hurt to someone else. I'm a perfect case for someone who might develope multiple personality disorder in the future. I'm too quiet when I'm hating things.

But you need to learn to realize that in most cases you aren't really angry at the person themself, but at an action or somesuch that they're doing. Then you can learn to deal with that (or just try to cut yourself from contact with that person).