If Gandalf has Narya, the ring of Fire, does he have power over the Balrog?

Fion · 05-02-2003, 09:45 PM

If Gandalf didn't have Narya, do you think he would have done worse in the fight.

Fion

Wayfarer · 05-02-2003, 10:30 PM

Melko Belcha · 05-02-2003, 10:57 PM

The Elven Rings was not made for power or war, they were made to preserve.

The Silmarillion.

Quote:

Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named.......for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world.

Letters # 131

Quote:

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility.

Elf Girl · 05-03-2003, 11:23 AM

I don't think so. It has the power to rekindle the spirit, not kill Balrogs.

Dreran the Green · 05-03-2003, 11:56 AM

I don't think it made him more powerful, but I think MAYBE it is possible that Narya was a part of the reason Gandalf was able to endure such a battle. Didn't it have the power to strengthen hearts? Ya'd have to have a strong heart to fight like that. I was re-reading my ROTK appendices, did you know Gandalf fought that bloody Balrog for ten straight days???? It's incredible!!

....Heh heh, Gandalf is so cool

gimli7410 · 05-03-2003, 12:47 PM

dont think it would help him but probably do what dreran said

Bombadillo · 05-03-2003, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreran the Green
I don't think it made him more powerful, but I think MAYBE it is possible that Narya was a part of the reason Gandalf was able to endure such a battle. Didn't it have the power to strengthen hearts? Ya'd have to have a strong heart to fight like that. I was re-reading my ROTK appendices, did you know Gandalf fought that bloody Balrog for ten straight days???? It's incredible!!

....Heh heh, Gandalf is so cool

Yeah, Gandalf really rocks.

Well I may be wrong, and I haven't finished the Appendixes yet, but I don't think Gandalf had Narya with him. If he did, it was only first mentioned in The Grey Havens. Perhaps it was being held in Lorien, and he just picked it up on his way back.

Dreran the Green · 05-03-2003, 07:47 PM

Hmm...maybe you're right. I always wondered about that. Now that I think about it, If Gandalf DID carry it around with him all the time, it seems that Sarumaun would have taken it from him back on Orthanc.

Attalus · 05-04-2003, 06:46 PM

Gandalf did have Narya with him, at all times. Like all of the Great Rings, it had the power to hide itself. Gandalf bested the Balrog because he was a servant of the Secret Fire of Arnor, and the Balrog's flame could not harm him.

Dreran the Green · 05-04-2003, 06:59 PM

Aaah, very wise of you to know such things

At any rate, I would like to use this as yet another wonderful opportunity to point out HOW COOL GANDALF IS!!!

durin's bane · 05-04-2003, 09:05 PM

No, he'd have similar chances. After all, the Elven Rings were made to preserve and not to increase power. I think they made your heart endure more, because I think it takes a lot of courage and will to fight a Balrog, so maybe Gandalf would have been more reluctant to fight it, but fight it and win he'd still do nonetheless.

Bombadillo · 05-04-2003, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
Gandalf did have Narya with him, at all times. Like all of the Great Rings, it had the power to hide itself. Gandalf bested the Balrog because he was a servant of the Secret Fire of Arnor, and the Balrog's flame could not harm him.

I see.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreran the Green
Aaah, very wise of you to know such things
At any rate, I would like to use this as yet another wonderful opportunity to point out HOW COOL GANDALF IS!!!

I agree. That is wise. And there's always an open opportunity to point out HOW COOL GANDALF IS!

I guess, since Narya was made to preserve, it preserved Gandalf pretty well, and his energy too.

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 05-08-2003, 08:24 PM

My feeling is that it gave him some power, though how much is hard to say. The ring of fire, in my opinion was made more for sustaining the bearer through hardship than the other two. If memory serves, didn't Cirdan tell him that when he arrived at the Havens? I'd have to go look.

I think it is highly possible that Gandalf could not have lasted several days fighting the Balrog without it - in fact, I think he may have been unable to slay its physical form at all.

Dreran the Green · 05-09-2003, 07:05 PM

BTW, I am getting my OWN Narya very very shortly.

Mwahahaha.....

druss · 05-17-2003, 08:25 AM

no narya would not have been used, this was decided by Galadriel in conference with Celebrimbor that the elven rings( after the one ring was made) should be hidden, never used and dispersed. narya was used to sustain and the battle with the balrog was between two maiars with both being vanquished!!! only gandalf was permitted to return.
With regards to saruman taking narya from gandalf in orthanc. saruman knew that gandalf recieved narya from cirdan (he was there) it is what started their feud. i also don't think that the rings could be " taken " from someone unless they were dead (i may be wrong on the last point couldn't remember any text to justify it).

Sween · 05-17-2003, 08:53 AM

Gandalfs rings main attribute was to rekindle the hearts of people! mind you this is also stated as been gandalfs main gift in his form of Olorin in the west so maybe this is another case of the rings of power taking what is within there wearers and improving it much like the one does.

For it helping him in the fight with the balrog it does indeed state that the rings of power did have. Galadreils helped defend and make lorien much more beautiful but also increased her desire for the sea and the west so her joy was much deminished!

Gandlafs ring probably helped him keep the faith if it were and not lose hope one of the strongest points of a balrog as with a nasgul is that it made people fearfull and a blackness would come over there heart etc etc. Maybe his ring helped him here

Linarryl · 05-28-2003, 04:20 PM

NO, the balrogs don't just listen to what you say if you control it's elemental ring. It's EVIL and only listens to the EVIL *just kidding bout the EVIL part*

Ararax · 05-28-2003, 05:20 PM

it probably helped him when he was naked and on a snowy mountain.

Dreran the Green · 05-28-2003, 05:24 PM

*shudders* I am pitying Gandalf and disturbed by that image at the same time

Bombadillo · 05-29-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreran the Green
BTW, I am getting my OWN Narya very very shortly.
Mwahahaha.....

That's very cool. I'm getting Glamdring! Hahaha...

Save the Topic!
Wasn't the balrog, at one point, something like Sauron (sorry for lack of name, can't read the Sil yet). So if Narya was forged by 'mere' elves, it might not have had any power over the balrog. Or maybe its power could have been reversed.

But alas, I really don't know what I'm talking about. Someone smarter please agree or disagree.

EDIT: ...that is, [wrongfully] assuming it does in fact have power over fire. Oops.

05-02-2003, 09:45 PM	#1
Fion Hobbit Join Date: May 2003 Location: en route to Sweden Posts: 22	If Gandalf has Narya, the ring of Fire, does he have power over the Balrog? If Gandalf didn't have Narya, do you think he would have done worse in the fight. Fion __________________ "And then what?"said her Daemon sleepily. "Build what?" "The Republic of Heaven," said Lyra. The Amber spyglass. I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a massage... "When evening in the shire was grey / his footsteps on the hill were heard / before the dawn he went away / on journey long without a word."

05-02-2003, 10:30 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	No. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

05-03-2003, 11:23 AM	#4
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I don't think so. It has the power to rekindle the spirit, not kill Balrogs. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

05-03-2003, 11:56 AM	#5
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	I don't think it made him more powerful, but I think MAYBE it is possible that Narya was a part of the reason Gandalf was able to endure such a battle. Didn't it have the power to strengthen hearts? Ya'd have to have a strong heart to fight like that. I was re-reading my ROTK appendices, did you know Gandalf fought that bloody Balrog for ten straight days???? It's incredible!! ....Heh heh, Gandalf is so cool __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

05-03-2003, 12:47 PM	#6
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	dont think it would help him but probably do what dreran said __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

05-03-2003, 07:47 PM	#8
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	Hmm...maybe you're right. I always wondered about that. Now that I think about it, If Gandalf DID carry it around with him all the time, it seems that Sarumaun would have taken it from him back on Orthanc. __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

05-04-2003, 06:46 PM	#9
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Gandalf did have Narya with him, at all times. Like all of the Great Rings, it had the power to hide itself. Gandalf bested the Balrog because he was a servant of the Secret Fire of Arnor, and the Balrog's flame could not harm him. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

05-04-2003, 06:59 PM	#10
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	Aaah, very wise of you to know such things At any rate, I would like to use this as yet another wonderful opportunity to point out HOW COOL GANDALF IS!!! __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

05-04-2003, 09:05 PM	#11
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	No, he'd have similar chances. After all, the Elven Rings were made to preserve and not to increase power. I think they made your heart endure more, because I think it takes a lot of courage and will to fight a Balrog, so maybe Gandalf would have been more reluctant to fight it, but fight it and win he'd still do nonetheless. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

05-08-2003, 08:24 PM	#13
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	My feeling is that it gave him some power, though how much is hard to say. The ring of fire, in my opinion was made more for sustaining the bearer through hardship than the other two. If memory serves, didn't Cirdan tell him that when he arrived at the Havens? I'd have to go look. I think it is highly possible that Gandalf could not have lasted several days fighting the Balrog without it - in fact, I think he may have been unable to slay its physical form at all. __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

05-09-2003, 07:05 PM	#14
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	BTW, I am getting my OWN Narya very very shortly. Mwahahaha..... __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

05-17-2003, 08:25 AM	#15
druss Hobbit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: england Posts: 22	no narya would not have been used, this was decided by Galadriel in conference with Celebrimbor that the elven rings( after the one ring was made) should be hidden, never used and dispersed. narya was used to sustain and the battle with the balrog was between two maiars with both being vanquished!!! only gandalf was permitted to return. With regards to saruman taking narya from gandalf in orthanc. saruman knew that gandalf recieved narya from cirdan (he was there) it is what started their feud. i also don't think that the rings could be " taken " from someone unless they were dead (i may be wrong on the last point couldn't remember any text to justify it). __________________ take this ring....for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you....and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill

05-17-2003, 08:53 AM	#16
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Gandalfs rings main attribute was to rekindle the hearts of people! mind you this is also stated as been gandalfs main gift in his form of Olorin in the west so maybe this is another case of the rings of power taking what is within there wearers and improving it much like the one does. For it helping him in the fight with the balrog it does indeed state that the rings of power did have. Galadreils helped defend and make lorien much more beautiful but also increased her desire for the sea and the west so her joy was much deminished! Gandlafs ring probably helped him keep the faith if it were and not lose hope one of the strongest points of a balrog as with a nasgul is that it made people fearfull and a blackness would come over there heart etc etc. Maybe his ring helped him here __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

05-28-2003, 04:20 PM	#17
Linarryl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 160	NO, the balrogs don't just listen to what you say if you control it's elemental ring. It's EVIL and only listens to the EVIL just kidding bout the EVIL part

05-28-2003, 05:20 PM	#18
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	it probably helped him when he was naked and on a snowy mountain. __________________ Woah Deep

05-28-2003, 05:24 PM	#19
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	shudders I am pitying Gandalf and disturbed by that image at the same time __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

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