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#1 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
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Lesser rings
Does anyone know anything about the many other rings (apart from the Great Rings), "essays in the craft", which Gandalf mentions in The Shadow of the Past in FOTR
Also, when Tolkien talks about "Great Rings", does he mean the One, Three, Seven and Nine, or were there others? (As usual, sorry if this has already been done. You can imagine that my search for "lesser rings" yielded a whole bunch of hits...) cheers d. |
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#2 |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
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1. I don't know if Tolkien talks explicitly of the lesser rings in other books, but Saruman wore a ring. People tend to believe that it was a lesser ring.
2. Yes, i think that the great rings were only the 3, 7, 9 and 1.
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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#3 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: somewhere between here and there
Posts: 116
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![]() good question. i just wish i had a good answer.
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#4 |
The Redneck Elf
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a house
Posts: 539
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I imagine there would have been. Gandalf didnt freak out when he learned Bilbo's ring was magical.
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#5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 139
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With the exception of the One, the other rings were made by Elven-smiths in Dol Guldur in the south of Mirkwood.
The other rings were simple drafts, used for practice before the three Elven rings were made, correct? Then Sauron offered them to the Dwarves and Men to gain power? That is all I know.
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~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________ |
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#6 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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I think the Lesser Rings were used as practice before ALL of the Great Rings, not just the Three.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#7 |
Slacker
Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,759
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I don't know much about the 'lesser rings'. Fat Middle mentioned that Saruman wore a ring, but I believe that was of his own making. There must have been many lesser rings because of that line from The Hobbit, "There are many magic rings in this world Bilbo Baggins, and none should be used lightly." Or something along those lines because that was from memory.
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"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
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#8 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Yes, I would certainly think it was probably of his own making, as he called himself Ring-maker, I think.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#9 |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
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i agree that Saruman's ring was probably made by his own. i mentioned it as a lesser ring because i think it has "lesser power" compare with the great rings.
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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#10 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
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The clear implication in Shadow of the Past and the quote Khamul cited was that there were lots of magic rings. It's not 100% clear that the Great Rings are only the 1, 3, 7 and 9, but it's certainly implied.
Gandalf says that the ring's property of bestowing invisibility marked it out as one of the Great Rings. Given that he already knew the whereabouts of the 3 and 9, and that he knew Thror's ring had been lost in Dol Guldur, Bilbo's ring would have to be either the One or one of the other Seven. It would seem to be massively negligent on his part to leave it for 50+ years. So this leaves us with: 1) there are other "Great Rings"; 2) Gandalf was negligent; or 3) it's a plot hole you could drive a camel through. Hmmm. |
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#11 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 171
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I also have a question concerning the Rins of Power. There is the One Ring named (does it have other names, btw, apart from the One, the Ruling Ring or something along these lines), also the three elven rings (Narya, Nenya and Darya, IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong). However, what about the other rings (the 7 and the 9)? Are they named in any place? If yes, was the naming made by JRR Tolkien himself or deduced by Christopher Tolkien?
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#12 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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Where did Gandalf say that the fact that Bilbo's ring conferred invisibility showed that it was one of the great rings?
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#13 | ||
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
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My mistake, it doesn't say that invisibility showed it to be a Great Ring, but rather that the keeper does not age. Gandalf says in The Shadow of the Past:
Quote:
Quote:
cheers d. PS - wasn't it Vilya, the third of the Three? Last edited by Dunadan : 03-19-2003 at 05:14 AM. |
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#14 |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
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yep, Vilya was its name.
i consider proved that Gandalf is guilty of negligence. ![]()
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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#15 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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I agree w/ you, FM! I mean, he knew where the three and nine were, so as someone said earlier, it had to be one of the seven or the One! But then if it is implied that other "great" rings were made apart from the main group, that would explain the behavior. I'll have to believe that, or my faith in Gandalf as one of the Wise will be shattered!
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#16 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
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Yeah, they spent so long agonising over it at the Council of Elrond, longer than Hans Blix choosing a sandwich, there has to be others, like Elvellyn said. Which is a bit odd, as I'm sure it specifically states that the Great Rings were just the 3, 7, 9 and One.
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#17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
Posts: 608
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![]() Gandalf wasn't necessarily to know that lack of ageing was a sign of a great ring when Bilbo found it. Also, he had many other things on his mind, a wizard can't be everywhere at once!
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#18 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
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You'll note from the quote above that he claims to have known it was a Great Ring right from the start. There must've been quite a few kicking around for him not to freak out immediately.
Anyway, maybe the blue wizards had the other Great Rings, and made balrog wings out of them for Tom Bombadil. ![]() Alternatively, this story was one which "grew in the telling" and which we weren't meant to read over and over again picking holes in it. cheers d. |
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#19 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
Posts: 608
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The Hobbit wasn't originally anything to do with LotR. Dunno if that makes the situation any better??!!!
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I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!! |
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#20 | |
Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 3,419
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Quote:
Anyway, that's a good point about knowing it was a great ring from the start, but still I think Tolkien intended the great rings to only be the One, Seven, Nine, and Three.
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