The Phoenix

FrodoFriend · 03-13-2003, 08:42 AM

One of the things I noticed when watching the second movie was that the statue in front of the stairway leading to Dumbledore's office is a phoenix. Now, I remember that in the book it was a gargoyle, and I wondered why they would change such an apparently inconsequential thing.

So I got to thinking about it a little, and I realized that the phoenix could easily be a symbol for much of what happens in the books. The phoenix arises from the ashes, reborn out of destruction. And there's sort of a cycle going on here - Voldemort is defeated and rises again, Harry and Co. arrive at Hogwart's and leave again in the same pattern every year, etc. There are more examples that I won't type out now.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting, and in my opinion this is a key element. Perhaps in the coming books Voldemort will almost win, and only on the brink of destruction will the good guys save the day. Or maybe Harry really is the heir of Gryffindor, thus showing yet another cycle of rebirth.

Any thoughts/further examples of a cyclical nature?

eowyngirl14 · 03-13-2003, 05:23 PM

sorry... I am a bit lost, what are you talking about ?

**crickhollow** · 03-13-2003, 09:46 PM

Interesting thoughts, FF...I'll have to mull those over for a while.

Estel13 · 03-13-2003, 09:52 PM

I haven't seen 'Chamber of Secrets' yet. I'll get back to ya on this once I've actually SEEN the movie. Get it together, eowyngirl14!

Sylvee Estel · 03-14-2003, 07:26 PM

Wow that makes a lot of sense. Interesting...

***Khamûl*** · 03-15-2003, 12:17 AM

Or maybe you're just reading too much into a change they made in converting the book to a movie.

Maybe Dumbledore just wanted a statue of Fawkes outside his office.

Estel13 · 03-15-2003, 07:33 PM

This IS quite possible.

eowyngirl14 · 03-16-2003, 02:13 PM

i still have no idea what any of you are babling on about!

Who else is going to hang out a Barnes and Nobles untill midnoght on June 21?

nobody.. okay just me then! I can party by myself!

Estel13 · 03-16-2003, 03:49 PM

I would if I was allowed to! The opperative word here being 'if'.

eowyngirl14 · 03-16-2003, 04:01 PM

what does opperative mean?

Celebriel · 03-16-2003, 04:34 PM

Ai, symbolism...metaphors.

How I hate thee.

Finmandos12 · 03-17-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

One of the things I noticed when watching the second movie was that the statue in front of the stairway leading to Dumbledore's office is a phoenix. Now, I remember that in the book it was a gargoyle, and I wondered why they would change such an apparently inconsequential thing.

So I got to thinking about it a little, and I realized that the phoenix could easily be a symbol for much of what happens in the books. The phoenix arises from the ashes, reborn out of destruction. And there's sort of a cycle going on here - Voldemort is defeated and rises again, Harry and Co. arrive at Hogwart's and leave again in the same pattern every year, etc. There are more examples that I won't type out now.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting, and in my opinion this is a key element. Perhaps in the coming books Voldemort will almost win, and only on the brink of destruction will the good guys save the day. Or maybe Harry really is the heir of Gryffindor, thus showing yet another cycle of rebirth.

I doubt that's the reason. The movie's audience wouldn't be able to understand something that deep.

eowyngirl14 · 03-18-2003, 05:07 PM

i still don't know what we are talking about- so if someone wants to clue me in i'd understand.....

FrodoFriend · 03-19-2003, 07:28 AM

Wow, this thread has had some real great, intelligent responses ...

I just believe that most great books have a deeper meaning as well as good entertainment value. Therefore I am searches for that meaning in HP.

Estel13 · 03-19-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Wow, this thread has had some real great, intelligent responses.

Well, that's great, coming from someone who's rating is 'Halfwitted'.

Gorhiriel · 03-20-2003, 08:21 PM

*blinks* Wow. That's deep. I hadn't thought of that before.

sun-star · 03-21-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

So I got to thinking about it a little, and I realized that the phoenix could easily be a symbol for much of what happens in the books. The phoenix arises from the ashes, reborn out of destruction. And there's sort of a cycle going on here - Voldemort is defeated and rises again, Harry and Co. arrive at Hogwart's and leave again in the same pattern every year, etc. There are more examples that I won't type out now.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting, and in my opinion this is a key element. Perhaps in the coming books Voldemort will almost win, and only on the brink of destruction will the good guys save the day. Or maybe Harry really is the heir of Gryffindor, thus showing yet another cycle of rebirth

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if Harry himself is something like a phoenix, being "the boy who lived" when everyone expected he would have died. Certainly with the first book's consideration of immortality, and the fact that it seems to be Voldemort's ultimate goal, I think you're probably right in suggesting there is something significant in this. And, of course, we may find out more in the next book, judging by the title, "The Order of the Phoenix"

TinuvielChild · 03-30-2003, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Estel13
Well, that's great, coming from someone who's rating is 'Halfwitted'.

HEY! I resemble that remark...

In this case, "Halfwitted" means a lover of Frodo. A stalker of Frodo. A person who posted on the "What would you do? Heh heh..." thread. Et cetera.

Deep. Real deep. My English teacher keeps telling us to look for things like that in the books we read, but I never do...I just enjoy the story.

Hey, so I like a good story, so A-K me.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-31-2003, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
In this case, "Halfwitted" means a lover of Frodo. A stalker of Frodo. A person who posted on the "What would you do? Heh heh..." thread. Et cetera.

NOT in my case, though!

TinuvielChild · 03-31-2003, 01:23 AM

Well, duh!

Silly Gwaimir...WE knows you're a halfwit in the other sense, yes preciousss.....

03-13-2003, 08:42 AM	#1
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	The Phoenix One of the things I noticed when watching the second movie was that the statue in front of the stairway leading to Dumbledore's office is a phoenix. Now, I remember that in the book it was a gargoyle, and I wondered why they would change such an apparently inconsequential thing. So I got to thinking about it a little, and I realized that the phoenix could easily be a symbol for much of what happens in the books. The phoenix arises from the ashes, reborn out of destruction. And there's sort of a cycle going on here - Voldemort is defeated and rises again, Harry and Co. arrive at Hogwart's and leave again in the same pattern every year, etc. There are more examples that I won't type out now. Anyway, I thought it was interesting, and in my opinion this is a key element. Perhaps in the coming books Voldemort will almost win, and only on the brink of destruction will the good guys save the day. Or maybe Harry really is the heir of Gryffindor, thus showing yet another cycle of rebirth. Any thoughts/further examples of a cyclical nature? __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-13-2003, 05:23 PM	#2
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	sorry... I am a bit lost, what are you talking about ? __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

03-13-2003, 09:46 PM	#3
crickhollow The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas). Posts: 1,345	Interesting thoughts, FF...I'll have to mull those over for a while. __________________ A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.

03-13-2003, 09:52 PM	#4
Estel13 RPG-aholic Psycho Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Final Fantasy Posts: 733	I haven't seen 'Chamber of Secrets' yet. I'll get back to ya on this once I've actually SEEN the movie. Get it together, eowyngirl14! __________________

03-14-2003, 07:26 PM	#5
Sylvee Estel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 115	Wow that makes a lot of sense. Interesting... __________________ ~Sylvee

03-15-2003, 12:17 AM	#6
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Or maybe you're just reading too much into a change they made in converting the book to a movie. Maybe Dumbledore just wanted a statue of Fawkes outside his office. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

03-15-2003, 07:33 PM	#7
Estel13 RPG-aholic Psycho Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Final Fantasy Posts: 733	This IS quite possible. __________________

03-16-2003, 02:13 PM	#8
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	i still have no idea what any of you are babling on about! Who else is going to hang out a Barnes and Nobles untill midnoght on June 21? nobody.. okay just me then! I can party by myself! __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

03-16-2003, 03:49 PM	#9
Estel13 RPG-aholic Psycho Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Final Fantasy Posts: 733	I would if I was allowed to! The opperative word here being 'if'. __________________

03-16-2003, 04:01 PM	#10
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	what does opperative mean? __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

03-16-2003, 04:34 PM	#11
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	Ai, symbolism...metaphors. How I hate thee. __________________ ~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________

03-18-2003, 05:07 PM	#13
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	i still don't know what we are talking about- so if someone wants to clue me in i'd understand..... __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

03-19-2003, 07:28 AM	#14
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Wow, this thread has had some real great, intelligent responses ... I just believe that most great books have a deeper meaning as well as good entertainment value. Therefore I am searches for that meaning in HP. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-20-2003, 08:21 PM	#16
Gorhiriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 112	blinks Wow. That's deep. I hadn't thought of that before. __________________ Do not mess with me, or I will call my dragons and Destroy You All!!! BOROMIR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "And anon shall I Sail into the West: with the setting sun I shall remove my light from this world..."

03-31-2003, 01:23 AM	#20
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	Well, duh! Silly Gwaimir...WE knows you're a halfwit in the other sense, yes preciousss..... __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

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