Quick Question on Glorfindel..

Guardian_of_the_Forest · 02-02-2003, 07:00 PM

Are his relatives ever mentioned? Does he have relatives?

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-02-2003, 07:07 PM

He's a Noldorin Elf, and he's golden-haired, so I'm pretty sure he's of the House of one of Finwe's half-Vanya sons (Fongolfin, I think); other than that, I don't know.

galadriel · 02-03-2003, 08:19 PM

He was from Gondolin, "chief of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin". Whatever that means.... I guess he had descendants?

I don't think he really fits into Fingolfin's line, since Turgon's only child was Idril, and he can't be Aredhel's, and Fingon was either the father of Gil-galad or not a father at all... but he could be related to Finwe in some way, I suppose. There are always those pesky daughters of Finwe from the HoME books who may or may not exist.

Or he could be just a random elf of Vanyarin/Noldorin descent.

Lefty Scaevola · 02-04-2003, 12:02 AM

Their is no statement about his ancestry or family other than he was a prince of a house of princes, and that his family were Noldorin exiles, mostly perished in the fall of Goldolin (that last bit metion in HoME). He in not descended from Finwe, so his princely status must be derived elsewhere, either from some elevation by King Turgon, or by a older nobility predating Finwe's Kingship, perhaps descent from the legendary Tatya, first of the Tatyar (from which came the Noldor). JRRT's borad statement about golden hair being restricted among the Noldor to the house of Finrod (or Finarfin) is patently false in the case of Itarial/Idril/Celebrindal, daughter of Turgon, thus we will just half to consider that meaning that it was rare, there is the possibility of a a Vanya ancester, since intermarriage seemed common enough among the Eldar of Aman. The house of the Golden Flower is not referring to his family, but the the house or guild of warriors which he headed in Gondolin. Notes in HoME extoll his nobility and power of spirit.

galadriel · 02-04-2003, 10:46 AM

Didn't Idril get her blonde hair from Indis? So she didn't get it from a Noldorin ancestor. But you're right, there probably was enough intermarriage that a blond Noldor, though rare, wasn't impossible.

Lefty Scaevola · 02-04-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by galadriel
Didn't Idril get her blonde hair from Indis?.

Also her mother Elenwe, but still a direct contradiction to golden hair being stricticted among the Noldor to the House of Finrod/Finarfin, of which she and Glorfindal are not members.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-04-2003, 02:30 PM

Idril's mother was a Vanyarin Elf. One of the few that came into exile with the Noldor.

galadriel · 02-04-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Idril's mother was a Vanyarin Elf. One of the few that came into exile with the Noldor.

Er... yeah. I knew that. <sheepish grin>

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-04-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galadriel
Er... yeah. I knew that. <sheepish grin>

Oh. Well, I was just saying that it makes more sense for her to get it from her mother than from Indis.

About Glorfindel: we get the idea early on in the story that he is likely of the house of Finarfin, because of his golden hair that is described in the LotRs, but if that were the case then it seems that he would have been more likely to be an Elf of Nargothrond in the First age, instead of Gondolin. So perhaps he was of the line of Fingolfin and inherited the golden hair of Indis. I wonder why Fingolfin and his kids didn't inherit it.

Lefty Scaevola · 02-04-2003, 07:48 PM

We (or a least those with HoME) have the list of the descendants of Finwe in who went into exile (as Glorfindals did, he was born in Aman), and Glorfindal is not among them. He is not a Finwean. In the "last writing" (or something like that) section in either XI or XII of HoME is JRRT brainstorming in some note at Glorfinal. One statment is that he Followed TURGON into exile because of some sort of alleigence and becuse the rest of his family did.

Lanelf · 02-05-2003, 01:27 AM

Eeeh...*head spins* Family trees... never had much truck with them. I was pretty sure he was related to Fingolfin somehow, but maybe I was wrong. Have to go get out the Silmarillion now.
Lanelf.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-05-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lanelf
Eeeh...*head spins* Family trees... never had much truck with them. I was pretty sure he was related to Fingolfin somehow, but maybe I was wrong. Have to go get out the Silmarillion now.
Lanelf.

Well, the Silmarillion will not be of any help to you I'm afraid. The only thing you'll get from that is that he lived and died in Gondolin.

Dúnedain · 02-07-2003, 09:43 PM

All you need to know is that Glorfindel kicks major ass!

DraztiK · 02-08-2003, 09:39 AM

True, true.

02-02-2003, 07:00 PM	#1
Guardian_of_the_Forest Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: A Forgotten Forest Posts: 50	Quick Question on Glorfindel.. Are his relatives ever mentioned? Does he have relatives? __________________ ~Jennie ~Lossenhyandowen ~Guardian of the Forest

02-02-2003, 07:07 PM	#2
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	He's a Noldorin Elf, and he's golden-haired, so I'm pretty sure he's of the House of one of Finwe's half-Vanya sons (Fongolfin, I think); other than that, I don't know. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-03-2003, 08:19 PM	#3
galadriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a castle made of clouds Posts: 459	He was from Gondolin, "chief of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin". Whatever that means.... I guess he had descendants? I don't think he really fits into Fingolfin's line, since Turgon's only child was Idril, and he can't be Aredhel's, and Fingon was either the father of Gil-galad or not a father at all... but he could be related to Finwe in some way, I suppose. There are always those pesky daughters of Finwe from the HoME books who may or may not exist. Or he could be just a random elf of Vanyarin/Noldorin descent. __________________ Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel

02-04-2003, 12:02 AM	#4
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Their is no statement about his ancestry or family other than he was a prince of a house of princes, and that his family were Noldorin exiles, mostly perished in the fall of Goldolin (that last bit metion in HoME). He in not descended from Finwe, so his princely status must be derived elsewhere, either from some elevation by King Turgon, or by a older nobility predating Finwe's Kingship, perhaps descent from the legendary Tatya, first of the Tatyar (from which came the Noldor). JRRT's borad statement about golden hair being restricted among the Noldor to the house of Finrod (or Finarfin) is patently false in the case of Itarial/Idril/Celebrindal, daughter of Turgon, thus we will just half to consider that meaning that it was rare, there is the possibility of a a Vanya ancester, since intermarriage seemed common enough among the Eldar of Aman. The house of the Golden Flower is not referring to his family, but the the house or guild of warriors which he headed in Gondolin. Notes in HoME extoll his nobility and power of spirit. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 02-04-2003 at 11:56 AM.

02-04-2003, 10:46 AM	#5
galadriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a castle made of clouds Posts: 459	Didn't Idril get her blonde hair from Indis? So she didn't get it from a Noldorin ancestor. But you're right, there probably was enough intermarriage that a blond Noldor, though rare, wasn't impossible. __________________ Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel Last edited by galadriel : 02-04-2003 at 10:47 AM.

02-04-2003, 02:30 PM	#7
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Idril's mother was a Vanyarin Elf. One of the few that came into exile with the Noldor. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-04-2003, 07:48 PM	#10
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	We (or a least those with HoME) have the list of the descendants of Finwe in who went into exile (as Glorfindals did, he was born in Aman), and Glorfindal is not among them. He is not a Finwean. In the "last writing" (or something like that) section in either XI or XII of HoME is JRRT brainstorming in some note at Glorfinal. One statment is that he Followed TURGON into exile because of some sort of alleigence and becuse the rest of his family did. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 02-05-2003 at 05:44 PM.

02-05-2003, 01:27 AM	#11
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	Eeeh...head spins Family trees... never had much truck with them. I was pretty sure he was related to Fingolfin somehow, but maybe I was wrong. Have to go get out the Silmarillion now. Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

02-07-2003, 09:43 PM	#13
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	All you need to know is that Glorfindel kicks major ass! __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

02-08-2003, 09:39 AM	#14
DraztiK Enting Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mol, Belgium Posts: 94	True, true. __________________ The name's DraztiK, but those whose name isn't totally blasted into Oblivion yet may call me DraZ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Our Armies in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales Our Brothers in Belgium, Holland and France will not fail. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, back to the Glory of Germany! ~Manowar - Blood of the Kings~

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
quick question	LuthienTinuviel	Lord of the Rings Books	22	09-06-2003 09:08 PM
Question about Arwen & Glorfindel....	Dúnedain	Middle Earth	58	01-22-2003 08:33 PM
Quick Age Question	Starr Polish	Lord of the Rings Books	10	08-24-2002 03:24 AM
quick question	LuthienTinuviel	General Messages	4	04-07-2002 12:57 AM
Just a quick question.	TolkienNewbie	The Silmarillion	4	04-02-2001 08:22 PM