A bone to pick with Tolkien

ElfFriend · 01-18-2003, 03:56 PM

A.) Every one gets to come back to life except Boromir...Is that fair!

B.) Was he losing his mind while writting ROTK... I mean Frodo is naked half the time and Eowyn wants to be a healer over a queen, not to mention Beregond dies in the battle of the ring and then comes back to life to be sent to defend "Prince" Faramir~ and Eowyn in Imathil*

*spelling?

~I think he became a prince...feel free to correct me

Elf Girl · 01-18-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElfFriend
A.) Every one gets to come back to life except Boromir...Is that fair!

B.) Was he losing his mind while writting ROTK... I mean Frodo is naked half the time and Eowyn wants to be a healer over a queen, not to mention Beregond dies in the battle of the ring and then comes back to life to be sent to defend "Prince" Faramir~ and Eowyn in Imathil*

*spelling?

~I think he became a prince...feel free to correct me

A.) By "everyone", I take it you mean Gandalf. He is a Maiar, he can't die unless the Valar forsake him. Also Denethor died conclusively.

B.) Frodo is naked once. Eowyn sees that she cannot love Aragorn, he is spoken for, and anyway she loves Faramir more. She never had the option of being queen, and her wound made her think and decide to be a healer. I don't recall Beregond dying in the first place.

Elvedans · 01-18-2003, 04:46 PM

Hmmm Elffriend I think you need to read the book a few more times. And try the Appendixes they are very helpful for the confused mind!

BeardofPants · 01-18-2003, 04:51 PM

I'm not sure what you're on about RE: Beregond. There were two. One was a steward, and one was a guard of Gondor.

Elvedans · 01-18-2003, 04:56 PM

Hmmm I don't remember there being a Steward named Beregond let me consult my Book..... Ok you're right!

Elf Girl · 01-18-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm not sure what you're on about RE: Beregond. There were two. One was a steward, and one was a guard of Gondor.

If your'e talking to me, when I said "Beregond", I was referring to the guard, I forgot about the Steward.

Huan · 01-18-2003, 05:31 PM

I don't think Tolkien was losing his mind while writing ROTK, but I too felt disappointed by the outcome of Eowyn's story. I was kind of hoping while reading the book that maybe Eowyn could somehow wind up queen of Rohan. I know it couldn't have happened, but I wanted it to. And I also never loved Faramir much, so I didn't get into their love story. My biggest beef with ROTK was that I felt Legolas and Gimli really got shortchanged. The battle goes on for pages, and in the aftermath, Tolkien finally says "Oh, and Legolas and Gimli were there too." That's the impression I remember anyway.

BeardofPants · 01-18-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
If your'e talking to me, when I said "Beregond", I was referring to the guard, I forgot about the Steward.

Nope, I was referring to the thread starter.

Dúnedain · 01-18-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElfFriend
not to mention Beregond dies in the battle of the ring and then comes back to life to be sent to defend "Prince" Faramir~ and Eowyn in Imathil*

Hey if you haven't finished reading Return of the King yet, then do so, because you will find your above reference to be otherwise....

I think he might mean when Pippin and Beregond are attacked in front of the Black Gate, this is what is written in that chapter:

"Like a storm they broke upon the line of the men of Gondor, and beat upon helm and head, and arm and shield, as smiths hewing the hot bending iron. At Pippin's side Beregond was stunned and overborne, and he fell; and the great troll-chief that smote him down bent over him, reaching out a clutching claw; for these fell creatures would bite the throats of those that they threw down.

Then Pippin stabbed upwards, and the written blade of Westernesse pierced through the hide and went deep into the vitals of the troll, and his black blood came gushing out. He toppled forward and came crashing down like a falling rock, burying those beneath him. Blackness and stench and crushing pain came upon Pippin, and his mind fell away into a great darkness."

That is from Return of the King, the chapter "The Black Gate Opens" that part is on the last page of the chapter.

When I first read that I thought they both died, I mean when it says "and the great troll-chief that smote him down" sounds like death to me, however I was pleasantly surprised later on

Celebréiel · 01-18-2003, 06:26 PM

Off topic: I thought

Pip died when I first read it too!

I freaked out, but yeah, very happy when I kept reading

Anyways, I thought Rotk was fantastic, no beefs, Love Eowyn and Faramir together, and the parts with Frodo werent like 'ooh hes naked' it was just adding to his turmoil! Love Samwise the brave!

~Celebréiel

***Khamûl*** · 01-18-2003, 10:29 PM

Well, naked hobbits isn't exactly something new to RotK. There was that incident with Tom Bombadil...

gimli7410 · 03-06-2003, 12:45 AM

i thought beregond died.well now im happy

Lalaith · 03-06-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

And I also never loved Faramir much, so I didn't get into their love story.

How can anybody not like Faramir?

About Legolas and Gimli:
I always thought that Tolkien mentioned them too less. I mean I didn't realize that they already had left until I realized that they were not mentioned anymore in RotK. If you know what I mean.

Silverleaf · 03-06-2003, 08:17 PM

~I know what you mean about Legolas and Gimli and when they leave I really couldn't tell but had to assume thats when they left.
~The only problem I have is about Frodo he seems...so very very dependent on Sam and it bugs me sometimes.

NamÃ¡riÃ«

Lalaith · 03-07-2003, 01:43 PM

And I know what you mean silverleaf. It was kinda strange that Sam lived in Frodos "house" in the end.

markedel · 03-07-2003, 03:08 PM

I'd say Sam is subordinate to Frodo.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-07-2003, 05:38 PM

Sam was the servant of the house. Also, Frodo was terribly worn by bearing the Ring. I'm sorry, but I fail to see what bugs?

Elvellyn · 03-08-2003, 01:44 AM

Plus, Frodo had Bag End all to himself- I imagine he would have gotten lonely without Bilbo or Sam. They had become quite close, I'd imagine, during their journey.

Lalaith · 03-08-2003, 07:18 AM

I wouldn't have said anything, if Sam moved to Frodo alone, but Sam was married and had children.

markedel · 03-08-2003, 10:22 AM

Sam served Frodo-why would he move out. How, on servant's wages would he move out. The Shire is modeled on England. Servants lived with their masters.

01-18-2003, 03:56 PM	#1
ElfFriend Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Viggo's bedroom...opps! Posts: 6	A bone to pick with Tolkien A.) Every one gets to come back to life except Boromir...Is that fair! B.) Was he losing his mind while writting ROTK... I mean Frodo is naked half the time and Eowyn wants to be a healer over a queen, not to mention Beregond dies in the battle of the ring and then comes back to life to be sent to defend "Prince" Faramir~ and Eowyn in Imathil* *spelling? ~I think he became a prince...feel free to correct me

01-18-2003, 04:46 PM	#3
Elvedans Diamond Of The Night Sky Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Old London Town (Well somewhere near there) Posts: 366	Hmmm Elffriend I think you need to read the book a few more times. And try the Appendixes they are very helpful for the confused mind! __________________ I see a little silhouetto of a man. Scaramouche scaramouche will you do the fandango? Thunderbolts and Lightning, very very frightening me!

01-18-2003, 04:51 PM	#4
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm not sure what you're on about RE: Beregond. There were two. One was a steward, and one was a guard of Gondor. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-18-2003, 04:56 PM	#5
Elvedans Diamond Of The Night Sky Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Old London Town (Well somewhere near there) Posts: 366	Hmmm I don't remember there being a Steward named Beregond let me consult my Book..... Ok you're right! __________________ I see a little silhouetto of a man. Scaramouche scaramouche will you do the fandango? Thunderbolts and Lightning, very very frightening me!

01-18-2003, 10:29 PM	#11
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Well, naked hobbits isn't exactly something new to RotK. There was that incident with Tom Bombadil... __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

01-18-2003, 05:31 PM	#7
Huan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 274	I don't think Tolkien was losing his mind while writing ROTK, but I too felt disappointed by the outcome of Eowyn's story. I was kind of hoping while reading the book that maybe Eowyn could somehow wind up queen of Rohan. I know it couldn't have happened, but I wanted it to. And I also never loved Faramir much, so I didn't get into their love story. My biggest beef with ROTK was that I felt Legolas and Gimli really got shortchanged. The battle goes on for pages, and in the aftermath, Tolkien finally says "Oh, and Legolas and Gimli were there too." That's the impression I remember anyway.

03-06-2003, 12:45 AM	#12
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	i thought beregond died.well now im happy __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

03-06-2003, 08:17 PM	#14
Silverleaf Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 29	~I know what you mean about Legolas and Gimli and when they leave I really couldn't tell but had to assume thats when they left. ~The only problem I have is about Frodo he seems...so very very dependent on Sam and it bugs me sometimes. NamÃ¡riÃ« __________________ May it be an evening star Shines down upon you May it be when darkness falls Your heart will be true You walk a lonely road Oh! How are you are from home Mornie utulie Believe and you will find your way Mornie alantie A promise lives within you now May it be shadows call Will fly away May it be your journey on To light the day When the night is overcome You may rise to find the sun Mornie utulie Believe and you will find your way Mornie alantie A promise lives within you now A promise lives within you now

03-07-2003, 01:43 PM	#15
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	And I know what you mean silverleaf. It was kinda strange that Sam lived in Frodos "house" in the end. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-07-2003, 03:08 PM	#16
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I'd say Sam is subordinate to Frodo. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-07-2003, 05:38 PM	#17
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Sam was the servant of the house. Also, Frodo was terribly worn by bearing the Ring. I'm sorry, but I fail to see what bugs? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-08-2003, 01:44 AM	#18
Elvellyn The Redneck Elf Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In a house Posts: 539	Plus, Frodo had Bag End all to himself- I imagine he would have gotten lonely without Bilbo or Sam. They had become quite close, I'd imagine, during their journey. __________________ Oliphants make great pets.

03-08-2003, 07:18 AM	#19
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I wouldn't have said anything, if Sam moved to Frodo alone, but Sam was married and had children. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-08-2003, 10:22 AM	#20
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Sam served Frodo-why would he move out. How, on servant's wages would he move out. The Shire is modeled on England. Servants lived with their masters. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Research paper on Tolkien	The Telcontarion	Writer's Workshop	10	12-16-2007 12:04 PM
Whats on your Bookshelf?	hectorberlioz	General Literature	135	02-12-2007 07:26 PM
My 10Kth post - Tolkien and a California Girl	Rían	General Messages	52	11-12-2005 10:38 PM
The Sundering of the Tolkien Fans	Black Breathalizer	Lord of the Rings Movies	55	01-22-2003 01:27 PM
a little orientation needed	DrFledermaus	The Silmarillion	9	02-12-2001 05:48 AM