How Sauron was depicted

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

I found the film depiction of Sauron to be quite impressive overall. It was a smart move not showing his face. That would be very difficult to pull off IMO. That was just badass when he was swinging that mace!

I wish they could have shown Gil-Galad a little more, and maybe show his death along with Elendil's though.

The only thing that ever bothers me about that scene is when he reached down towards Isildur, I can't help thinking: YOU MORON! Why don't you just say, "Hey Isildur, could you please cut my ring off and vanquish my power?"

Still, he was very terrifying. I wouldn't mind seeing him take form briefly at the end of ROTK when he realizes Frodo is at Mount Doom. That would be awesome.

[Huan]

Ah! I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that is kind of silly reaching for Isildur with the hand that wears the precious. My explanation would be the same as holds for all movie villains: overconfidence. Movie-Sauron probably figured that the sword broken was no longer useful against him.
Two questions from one who's read LOTR and the Silmarillion, but a few years ago, and the memory's getting rusty. 1: Isn't Isildur's (Aragorn's) sword called Anduril? In the movie, Boromir refers to the shards of Narsil. Is that another name for it, or are they making stuff up? 2: Now which one is Gil-Galad, and who's he when he's at home?

[Millane]

well first BoM i couldnt agree more with you on both counts sauron was perfect and i wished they had a bit more Gil-galad, i got a few pictures of him and they went into some pretty awesome detail only to have him cut down and stab an orc(which was still awesome if fleeting).
and for the questions Narsil was the sword when Elendil had it and when it was reforged for Aragorn it was renamed Anduril....
and as for Gil-galad he is only the best Elven King ever, he was the High King of the Noldor and the founder of Lindon and he went to war alongside Elendil in the Last Alliance and was killed by sauron...
another question about Gil-galad, i know there has been all that stuff with his father, but why when Christopher edited The Silm and Unfinished Tales, didnt he just chage it to orodreth before they were released???

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

Yeah, Aragorn's sword was originally Narsil. Right now I'm reading the books for the first time in about 10 years, although I've read them several times before that.

If I'm not mistaken, Aragorn renamed Anduril, which means Flame of the West. I'll have to go back and check.

It has been quite enjoyable reading the books again after seeing the movies several times. Also, I have studied the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales in great detail recently. That really adds an extra dimension to the LOTR books. The depth of Tolkien's world is unbelievable.

[Andúril]

Balrog of Morgoth:
*snip*

If I'm not mistaken, Aragorn renamed Anduril, which means Flame of the West.

*snip*

You are not mistaken. Well, I would say that Aragorn renamed Narsil, or named Andúril, but that's just me.

[Elf Girl]

I thought Sauron was good in FotR, but the whole "eye" thing in TTT was just lame. Sauron's eye is metaphorical, and exists only in the world where Ringwraiths are visable.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I thought Sauron was good in FotR, but the whole "eye" thing in TTT was just lame. Sauron's eye is metaphorical, and exists only in the world where Ringwraiths are visable.

The "eye" thing is straight from Tolkien's description of the tower of Barad-dur.

[LuthienTinuviel]

The "eye" thing is straight from Tolkien's description of the tower of Barad-dur.

lesson #1

PROVE IT.


not saying that my mind goes to ither side, im just asking you to maybe make an effort to back yourself up, instead of releying on us to trust you blindly.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by LuthienTinuviel
lesson #1

PROVE IT.


not saying that my mind goes to ither side, im just asking you to maybe make an effort to back yourself up, instead of releying on us to trust you blindly.

Well the same goes for the person that said the "eye" didn't exist and was only said metaphorically...

[Huan]

I agree that TTT kind of overdoes the Eye as an actual presence. I think it's meant to tie Barad-Dur more prominently into the scheme of things, so they can justify the title The Two Towers to non-reading audiences (them again!).

[Elf Girl]

Well, I said the Eye doesn't pysically exist, because A. In the Letters, Tolkien says that during the War of the Ring, Sauron appeared as a man robed in black, B. I don't recall any physical Eye in the books, though I may be mistaken, and C. Tolkien would never do anything as heavy-handed as put the looking all electric between two prongs of a tower.

I have backed up my opinion, please back up yours, Black Breathalizer.

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

I'm not sure of this, but I would say that since they showed Sauron's physical form being destroyed in the Last Alliance, they sort of trapped theirselves into showing him as "the eye of Sauron."

In the movie, Saruman says "He is not yet able to take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency." (Or something like that)

I'm not totally crazy about it either, but oh well. Like I said earlier, I hope to see him take form again before the end.

[Black Breathalizer]

Okay, I will. It is from the Return of the King.

I'll find it and quote it. I thought in a land of Tolkien Purists I wouldn't have to quote Tolkien to you all.

[Black Breathalizer]

Good morning, Class. Professor Blackie is here to provide you with Tolkien's description of Barad-dur:

Quote # 1 Originally written by J.R.R. Tolkien in The Return of the King describing Sauron's Road:
Out from the Dark Tower's huge western gate it came over a deep abyss by a vast bridge of iron, and then passing the plain it ran for a league between two smoking chasms, and so reached a long sloping causeway that led up to the Mountain's eastern side. Thence, turning and encircling all its wide girth from south to noth, it climbed at least, high in the upper cone, but still far from the reeking summit, to a dark entrance that gazed back east straight to the Window of the Eye in Sauron's shadow-mantled fortress.

Quote # 2 Originally written by J.R.R. Tolkien:
Far off the shadows of Sauron hung: but torn by some gust of wind out of the world, or else moved by some great disquiet within, the mantling clouds swirled, and for a moment, drew aside; and then he (Sam) saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast topmost tower of Barad-dur. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed.

If some of you view the "eye thing" as metaphysical, that's your right. But Jackson's view of Barad-dur is consistent with these two Tolkien passages. Class dismissed.

[Elf Girl]

Very well then, I will continue seeing it as metaphysical.

[Dúnedain]

Here is another passage, this is from Fellowship:

And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir - he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood.

I can see both points here, but to me, I think seeing the eye the way it was & is portrayed in the movie gives it more feel for what Tolkien writes, plus I think it is a neat concept


/me nudges Elf Girl

[Black Breathalizer]

I will admit to Elf Girl that I, too, viewed the Eye as metaphysical every time I read the Trilogy before this movie. But I LOVED what the WETA crew did in designing Barad-dur. Metaphysical is okay for books but that Eye design atop the tower was thrilling to see.

It will also make ROTK even more dramatic to the audience. The idea of Frodo and Sam walking across the plateau of Gorgoroth with that damn Eye in the distance will give the audience the same feeling that readers had of the hobbits walking to the Cracks of Doom right under the Dark Lord's nose.

[Elf Girl]

Dúnedain, in my opinion your quote proves my point. The Eye seems very metaphysical there.

BB, I am a purist. I also dislike putting technology in the same context as LotR, so the high-tech, electric-looking Eye put me off a bit.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Dúnedain, in my opinion your quote proves my point. The Eye seems very metaphysical there. BB, I am a purist. I also dislike putting technology in the same context as LotR, so the high-tech, electric-looking Eye put me off a bit.

Excuse me, Elf Girl, but the point is NOT that YOU CAN'T view the Eye as metaphysical. The point is that you and others can't blast Jackson for giving it a physical presence because - as I so brilliantly and flawlessly proved above - it is IN Tolkien.

I would add that it is only your opinion that the Eye is "high-tech, electric-looking." Others can look at the same pictures of Barad-dur and see the magic of Middle-Earth and the power of Sauron that Tolkien described.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I also dislike putting technology in the same context as LotR, so the high-tech, electric-looking Eye put me off a bit.

Funny you should say that, I also thought of technology when I saw the eye of Sauron between the spikes on top of Barad-Dur. It reminded me of poles enabling some sort of power exchange in between, thus creating the picture of the eye. Imo this seems fitting for a Dark Lord in PJ's universe, where technology is a no-no.