Why did Bilbo age so quickly, yet Gollum remained youthful?

Lizra · 01-04-2003, 10:05 AM

Why did Bilbo get so decrepit after giving up the ring, yet Gollum remained agile and youthful enough to travel, after an even longer period with, then without the ring?

Legolas_GreenLeaf · 01-04-2003, 02:26 PM

What do you mean when you say "agile and youthful to travel"? I think I'm just misunderstanding your question..

**crickhollow** · 01-04-2003, 03:18 PM

Gollum had the ring for what, 600 years? Bilbo only carried it for 60. My guess would be that the longer you carry it, the longer lasting its effects would be.

Artanis · 01-04-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
Why did Bilbo get so decrepit after giving up the ring, yet Gollum remained agile and youthful enough to travel, after an even longer period with, then without the ring?

Maybe because Bilbo didn't lose the Ring, but really gave it up, whereas Gollum lost it and ever tried to regain it. The Ring still held power over Gollum, but not over Bilbo.

***azalea*** · 01-04-2003, 03:57 PM

Hey, didn't I address this in another forum?

Attalus · 01-04-2003, 04:51 PM

I would add that the Ring took over almost all of Gollum, but touched Bilbo very little. Therefore Gollum was sort of a minor Ringwraith, with different characteristics due the the difference in the Rings involved.

WallRocker · 01-04-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crickhollow
Gollum had the ring for what, 600 years? Bilbo only carried it for 60. My guess would be that the longer you carry it, the longer lasting its effects would be.

That would make sense. Also remember that Bilbo and Smeagol were diffrent kinds of Hobbits(if Smeagol was really a Hobbit at all), and Gollum constantly had the RIng on, unlike Biblbo.

Attalus · 01-04-2003, 05:01 PM

Gandalf said that Smeagol's people were "the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors." Smeagol didn't wear the ring constantly, but hid it for whiles. That was how Bilbo found it.

Lizra · 01-04-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
Hey, didn't I address this in another forum?

My search on Bilbo's age didn't bring much, if this is somewhere else, I'd like to read it!

Bilbo was a tottering arthritic old geezer there at the end in Rivendell, constantly nodding off, unable to travel the paths of Mirkwood, the Lonely Mountain etc. (as he wished)

Gollum was catching fish by hand, leaping, slinking, and hopping about with ease, taking the Hobbits to Mordor. I was at a loss for an explanation when someone asked me this!

WallRocker · 01-04-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
Smeagol didn't wear the ring constantly, but hid it for whiles.

Actually, I meant that Gollum was constantally thinking about the Ring, and obsessing over it

Dúnedain · 01-05-2003, 03:04 AM

There are a lot of great points here and I think it is definitely a combination of them all. First and foremost is the shear length of time that the ring was in Gollum's keeping. He held it for over 500 years and it completely consumed him, all that he was and all that he knew. I guess you could say he became one with the ring or even became the ring itself. As was said above, he was so obssessed with the ring that his will to live and go one was just that, whereas with Bilbo it wasn't so. Granted Bilbo held the ring and craved it, but it didn't consume him as it did Gollum. Overall though, I think the whole time period is the difference here because Gollum was transformed, you can even see the entire different persona of him in the book when he speaks to his multiple personalities....

Huan · 01-05-2003, 03:10 AM

I think the length of time spent with the Ring is the important thing. By the time Gollum lost the Ring, it had already quite thoroughly done its work on him. Bilbo, on the other hand, had only just begun to "go Gollum." He was, after all, beginning to feel "sort of stretched, like." I like to think that it was in fact a VERY near miss, that he was at the precise turning point, where he could keep the Ring and become another Gollum (or another Sauron can you imagine!), or "fade into the West" as they say.

Dúnedain · 01-05-2003, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Huan
Bilbo, on the other hand, had only just begun to "go Gollum."

LMAO, that was great

cassiopeia · 01-05-2003, 04:05 AM

I agree with what everyone else has said, but I have another point to make: Smeagol was evil (or at least not 'good') before he got the ring, wasn't he? He did kill Deagol for it. So maybe the ring had a greater influence on Gollum because he was evil in the beginning and therefore the ring had a greater influence over him, so he didn't age as much when he lost the ring. (I hope that makes sense).

Dúnedain · 01-05-2003, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I agree with what everyone else has said, but I have another point to make: Smeagol was evil (or at least not 'good') before he got the ring, wasn't he? He did kill Deagol for it. So maybe the ring had a greater influence on Gollum because he was evil in the beginning and therefore the ring had a greater influence over him, so he didn't age as much when he lost the ring. (I hope that makes sense).

Actually no, the story is said that Smeagol was well liked and was friendly among those who knew him. However the thing that made him kill Deagol was the ring itself. The ring grasped him when he saw it, and it was the ring that made him act in that evil manner. It took him before he even had it...

cassiopeia · 01-05-2003, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnadain
Actually no, the story is said that Smeagol was well liked and was friendly among those who knew him. However the thing that made him kill Deagol was the ring itself. The ring grasped him when he saw it, and it was the ring that made him act in that evil manner. It took him before he even had it...

Yup, you are right, I just checked, it certainly doesn't say in the FOTR that Smeagol was evil before seeing the ring. I somehow got it into my head he was evil before the ring was found. Must be those stupid fangirl threads.

Attalus · 01-05-2003, 11:28 AM

We, in fact know little about Gollum before the Ring came into his life. We know that Deagol gave him an expensive birthday present, so that he must have had some redeeming qualities. But, apparently the Ring knew that his capacity for evil was far more than Deagol's, and so ensnared him, instead.

***azalea*** · 01-06-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
My search on Bilbo's age didn't bring much, if this is somewhere else, I'd like to read it!

I was kidding, I thought you started this because you had seen my answer to this same question that was asked a few days ago in the Gollum thread in the Hobbit forum, and wanted more opinions!

Lizra · 01-06-2003, 06:09 PM

I think I stumbled over that recently. I see the point you all are making, but I would be more likely to think....Gollum had the ring much longer, so was technically "older", so when he lost his precious, he aged rapidly and dramatically. Wouldn't be a very interesting story though!

Beleg Strongbow · 01-10-2003, 08:54 AM

Well, I suppose it was his old arthritic hip that broke and sent him tumbling into the Cracks of Doom.

01-04-2003, 10:05 AM	#1
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Why did Bilbo age so quickly, yet Gollum remained youthful? Why did Bilbo get so decrepit after giving up the ring, yet Gollum remained agile and youthful enough to travel, after an even longer period with, then without the ring? __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-04-2003, 02:26 PM	#2
Legolas_GreenLeaf Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: °Rivendell° Posts: 116	What do you mean when you say "agile and youthful to travel"? I think I'm just misunderstanding your question.. __________________ Legolas, Frodo, and Aragorn are the BEST! All fans of Elijah, Orlando, Sean, Billy, and Dom (no Viggo )should go here -----> http://www.bagendinn.com/castpics.htm

01-04-2003, 03:18 PM	#3
crickhollow The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas). Posts: 1,345	Gollum had the ring for what, 600 years? Bilbo only carried it for 60. My guess would be that the longer you carry it, the longer lasting its effects would be. __________________ A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.

01-04-2003, 04:51 PM	#6
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	I would add that the Ring took over almost all of Gollum, but touched Bilbo very little. Therefore Gollum was sort of a minor Ringwraith, with different characteristics due the the difference in the Rings involved. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-04-2003, 05:01 PM	#8
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Gandalf said that Smeagol's people were "the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors." Smeagol didn't wear the ring constantly, but hid it for whiles. That was how Bilbo found it. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-04-2003, 03:57 PM	#5
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Hey, didn't I address this in another forum?

01-05-2003, 03:04 AM	#11
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	There are a lot of great points here and I think it is definitely a combination of them all. First and foremost is the shear length of time that the ring was in Gollum's keeping. He held it for over 500 years and it completely consumed him, all that he was and all that he knew. I guess you could say he became one with the ring or even became the ring itself. As was said above, he was so obssessed with the ring that his will to live and go one was just that, whereas with Bilbo it wasn't so. Granted Bilbo held the ring and craved it, but it didn't consume him as it did Gollum. Overall though, I think the whole time period is the difference here because Gollum was transformed, you can even see the entire different persona of him in the book when he speaks to his multiple personalities....

01-05-2003, 03:10 AM	#12
Huan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 274	I think the length of time spent with the Ring is the important thing. By the time Gollum lost the Ring, it had already quite thoroughly done its work on him. Bilbo, on the other hand, had only just begun to "go Gollum." He was, after all, beginning to feel "sort of stretched, like." I like to think that it was in fact a VERY near miss, that he was at the precise turning point, where he could keep the Ring and become another Gollum (or another Sauron can you imagine!), or "fade into the West" as they say.

01-05-2003, 04:05 AM	#14
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I agree with what everyone else has said, but I have another point to make: Smeagol was evil (or at least not 'good') before he got the ring, wasn't he? He did kill Deagol for it. So maybe the ring had a greater influence on Gollum because he was evil in the beginning and therefore the ring had a greater influence over him, so he didn't age as much when he lost the ring. (I hope that makes sense). __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

01-05-2003, 11:28 AM	#17
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	We, in fact know little about Gollum before the Ring came into his life. We know that Deagol gave him an expensive birthday present, so that he must have had some redeeming qualities. But, apparently the Ring knew that his capacity for evil was far more than Deagol's, and so ensnared him, instead. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-06-2003, 06:09 PM	#19
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I think I stumbled over that recently. I see the point you all are making, but I would be more likely to think....Gollum had the ring much longer, so was technically "older", so when he lost his precious, he aged rapidly and dramatically. Wouldn't be a very interesting story though! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 01-10-2003 at 10:46 AM.

01-10-2003, 08:54 AM	#20
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	Well, I suppose it was his old arthritic hip that broke and sent him tumbling into the Cracks of Doom. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

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