The Rings

samwiselvr2008 · 12-22-2002, 01:45 PM

Of course the greatist Ring was Sauron's, but what was next? Was it Sauron's Ring, the nine ring's for men, the ones for the elfs, and then the dwarves? I don't know where to find this in the book, so it would also be nice if you gave me the passage or chapter and book that you can find the info. on!

Thanks!

Ñólendil · 12-22-2002, 05:02 PM

I don't think there is a right answer to this question. I never considered it. I don't know if there was a Dwarven, Mannish, or Elven Ring considered more powerful than the others. I think it's important to remember that the Nine and the Seven were not divided so before Sauron handed them out: they were 16 Rings of Power that Sauron possessed, and decided to give away to nine Men and seven Dwarves. If there was one Ring more powerful than the others in the Nine, I would guess it to be the one given to the Witchking, and if there was one of greater power among the Seven, I would guess it to be the one given to Durin III, but I do not know. As for the Three, they are sort of different because they were made by Celebrimbor alone, and Sauron never touched them. The greatest of the Three Rings is explicitly said to have been Vilya, the blue Ring of Air, which was originally possessed by Gil-galad and given to his herald, Elrond -- but I do not know if Vilya was greater than all the other Rings as well (bar the One).

Duddun · 12-23-2002, 01:26 AM

I always believed the three stronger because there were less and then dwarves and then men because. I think the mens all put together equaled the three. Or the 7 for that matter and the 7 equaled the three or the 9. Thats my opinion.

Millane · 12-23-2002, 08:10 AM

i always thought that Gil-galads ring Vilya was the most powerful ring behind the one... i know that it was the most powerful of the elven rings... it stands to reason doesnt it??? celebrinbor crafted the rings of power and he would naturally make the elven rings the most powerful...

Elf Girl · 12-23-2002, 10:00 AM

It says in "the grey havens" that Vilya was the greatest of the Three. I would also assume that the Witch-kings ring is the greatest of the Nine.

Artanis · 12-23-2002, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I would also assume that the Witch-kings ring is the greatest of the Nine.

I would rather assume the Witch-king once was the greatest and most powerful among the Men who were given rings.

If I were Sauron I would have made the 7 rings given to the Dwarves more powerful than the 9 rings given to Men, simply because Men were more easily corrupted. But there is no sign that he did so.

Elf Girl · 12-23-2002, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
I would rather assume the Witch-king once was the greatest and most powerful among the Men who were given rings.

So, Sauron might give him the most powerful ring, since he would have the strength to wield it.

I made that assumption only because the others all seem fungable, he is the only one the least bit differant.

Artanis · 12-23-2002, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
So, Sauron might give him the most powerful ring, since he would have the strength to wield it.

But he wasn't supposed to wield it, but submit to it, wasn't he?

Millane · 12-23-2002, 10:43 AM

thats what i thought... but it must have given him some qualities like immortality and the terror they inspired...
i think that as Celebrimbor was the maker and Sauron only added what he needed i dont think he would have given that much care to which ones where the most powerful...

Elf Girl · 12-23-2002, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
But he wasn't supposed to wield it, but submit to it, wasn't he?

Yes, but he wielded the power of fear that it gave him.

BeardofPants · 12-23-2002, 01:18 PM

I'm with Artanis on this one: I believe that the men that once weilded (before becoming wraiths) were powerful, not the rings. The key point about the nine is that of submission.

samwiselvr2008 · 12-30-2002, 02:51 PM

I may just be making a mistake, but I thought that I read somewher that Sauron's ring was the most powerfull, and then the rings for mortal men, and then eather the elves rings, or the Drawfs rings, that's what I'm asking.

Falagar · 12-30-2002, 03:52 PM

I agree with Artanis and BoP.

BeardofPants · 12-30-2002, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by samwiselvr2008
I may just be making a mistake, but I thought that I read somewher that Sauron's ring was the most powerfull, and then the rings for mortal men, and then eather the elves rings, or the Drawfs rings, that's what I'm asking.

If you're going to put an arbitrary hierarchy on the rings, then after the One Ring, I would theorise, would be the Elvish rings; but only because of the power of the Elves (and Gandalf) who carried them. After that, I would place the nine, and then the dwarven rings. If you would look for a hierarchy of power, then I would suggest that you look at the people who wore them, not the rings themselves, which were afterall, instruments of submission, not power.

samwiselvr2008 · 12-30-2002, 05:58 PM

I geuss that makes sence, although it dose seem that The One Ring itself holds more power then the other rings, not just its owner. It draws more objects to it, and more people long to own it when they see it then say, Galadriels Ring. When Galad. held up her ring for Frodo to see, he dosn't want it, but that may just be because of The One Ring? But, if that was so, then the One Ring DID have more power, right? Or maybe Frodo didn't want it because The One had showed him how dangerous the Rings of powers are? Now I'm really confusing myself!

markedel · 12-30-2002, 07:03 PM

I'd say the one was the strongest. The Three were inherantly different from the nine and the seven. The three exist to preserve Elven art. The nine exist to turn men into wraiths who serve Sauron, and the seven exist to exploit dwarven greed, and thus make them either to manipulate. It is written that dwarves can't be turned to wraiths, otherwise Sauron would have tried to do so. It makes one wonder; Why didn't Sauron offer a ring to a Numenorian king? Wouldn't Ar Pharazon be a better servant then a random black numenorian lord? Or would he be too powerful to dominate?

squinteyedsoutherner · 12-30-2002, 07:24 PM

The rings were all intended for elves, when the plan didn't work he got all but three of the rings back:

"but the elves fled from him and three of their rings they saved and bore them away and hid them. Now these were the three that had last been made and they held the greatest power.
But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining rings of power and he dealt them out to the other peoples of Middle-Earth, hoping thus to bring under his sway all those that desired power beyond the measure of their kind"

The Silmarillion

Artanis · 12-31-2002, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by markedel
Why didn't Sauron offer a ring to a Numenorian king? Wouldn't Ar Pharazon be a better servant then a random black numenorian lord? Or would he be too powerful to dominate?

The forging of the Rings of Power and the following war happened 1500-1700 SA, way before the time of Ar-Pharazon, who was king of Numenor during the years 3255-3319. Tar-Telperien was Numenorean king at the time of the war, and yes, I think Numenor was very strong at that time. The decline of the Numenoreans had not yet begun. Sauron preferred to offer the rings to Men that desired power and strength beyond their measure.

Firekitten2006 · 12-31-2002, 06:17 AM

Ok, this may be considered off topic, but not really

We know that the men that were given rings were turned into wraiths right?

Well what happened to the Dwaves and Elves?

Iron McFist · 12-31-2002, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firekitten2006
Ok, this may be considered off topic, but not really

We know that the men that were given rings were turned into wraiths right?

Well what happened to the Dwaves and Elves?

The elven rings sailed off into the Undying Lands with their owners - Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel. As to why they didn't fall under Sauron's power, they (the original owners of the Rings) sensed Sauron's plan as soon as he put the One ring on, and took their rings off.

Some of the dwarven rings, 4 or 5 I think, were consumed by dragon fire and the rest were back in Sauron's power. I don't think dwarves lusted power as much as gold, so the Rings didn't really affect them. I think there's some discussion as to whether a dwarf would have been best to take the Ring to Mordor, because they weren't as easily corrupted.

All the rings lost their power upon the unmaking of the One Ring in the fires of Orodruin.

12-22-2002, 01:45 PM	#1
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	The Rings Of course the greatist Ring was Sauron's, but what was next? Was it Sauron's Ring, the nine ring's for men, the ones for the elfs, and then the dwarves? I don't know where to find this in the book, so it would also be nice if you gave me the passage or chapter and book that you can find the info. on! Thanks! __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

12-22-2002, 05:02 PM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I don't think there is a right answer to this question. I never considered it. I don't know if there was a Dwarven, Mannish, or Elven Ring considered more powerful than the others. I think it's important to remember that the Nine and the Seven were not divided so before Sauron handed them out: they were 16 Rings of Power that Sauron possessed, and decided to give away to nine Men and seven Dwarves. If there was one Ring more powerful than the others in the Nine, I would guess it to be the one given to the Witchking, and if there was one of greater power among the Seven, I would guess it to be the one given to Durin III, but I do not know. As for the Three, they are sort of different because they were made by Celebrimbor alone, and Sauron never touched them. The greatest of the Three Rings is explicitly said to have been Vilya, the blue Ring of Air, which was originally possessed by Gil-galad and given to his herald, Elrond -- but I do not know if Vilya was greater than all the other Rings as well (bar the One). __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-23-2002, 01:26 AM	#3
Duddun I Antha Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: You expect ME to know? Posts: 784	I always believed the three stronger because there were less and then dwarves and then men because. I think the mens all put together equaled the three. Or the 7 for that matter and the 7 equaled the three or the 9. Thats my opinion. __________________ If you say my name I go "What?" If you say my name twice I go and look it up in the dictionary. **************************** I'm Not Evil! ************************** If the critics say it's good, is it really That good? ************************** It's a bird! It's a plane! No! It's a balloon! **************************** Duddun, Son of Bubbun

12-23-2002, 08:10 AM	#4
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	i always thought that Gil-galads ring Vilya was the most powerful ring behind the one... i know that it was the most powerful of the elven rings... it stands to reason doesnt it??? celebrinbor crafted the rings of power and he would naturally make the elven rings the most powerful... __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

12-23-2002, 10:00 AM	#5
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	It says in "the grey havens" that Vilya was the greatest of the Three. I would also assume that the Witch-kings ring is the greatest of the Nine. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

12-23-2002, 10:43 AM	#9
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	thats what i thought... but it must have given him some qualities like immortality and the terror they inspired... i think that as Celebrimbor was the maker and Sauron only added what he needed i dont think he would have given that much care to which ones where the most powerful... __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

12-23-2002, 01:18 PM	#11
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm with Artanis on this one: I believe that the men that once weilded (before becoming wraiths) were powerful, not the rings. The key point about the nine is that of submission. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

12-30-2002, 02:51 PM	#12
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	I may just be making a mistake, but I thought that I read somewher that Sauron's ring was the most powerfull, and then the rings for mortal men, and then eather the elves rings, or the Drawfs rings, that's what I'm asking. __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

12-30-2002, 03:52 PM	#13
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	I agree with Artanis and BoP. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

12-30-2002, 05:58 PM	#15
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	I geuss that makes sence, although it dose seem that The One Ring itself holds more power then the other rings, not just its owner. It draws more objects to it, and more people long to own it when they see it then say, Galadriels Ring. When Galad. held up her ring for Frodo to see, he dosn't want it, but that may just be because of The One Ring? But, if that was so, then the One Ring DID have more power, right? Or maybe Frodo didn't want it because The One had showed him how dangerous the Rings of powers are? Now I'm really confusing myself! __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

12-30-2002, 07:03 PM	#16
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I'd say the one was the strongest. The Three were inherantly different from the nine and the seven. The three exist to preserve Elven art. The nine exist to turn men into wraiths who serve Sauron, and the seven exist to exploit dwarven greed, and thus make them either to manipulate. It is written that dwarves can't be turned to wraiths, otherwise Sauron would have tried to do so. It makes one wonder; Why didn't Sauron offer a ring to a Numenorian king? Wouldn't Ar Pharazon be a better servant then a random black numenorian lord? Or would he be too powerful to dominate? __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

12-30-2002, 07:24 PM	#17
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	The rings were all intended for elves, when the plan didn't work he got all but three of the rings back: "but the elves fled from him and three of their rings they saved and bore them away and hid them. Now these were the three that had last been made and they held the greatest power. But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining rings of power and he dealt them out to the other peoples of Middle-Earth, hoping thus to bring under his sway all those that desired power beyond the measure of their kind" The Silmarillion Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 12-30-2002 at 07:43 PM.

12-31-2002, 06:17 AM	#19
Firekitten2006 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the US of A! But I wish i was in austraila, never been, just think it would be a fun place to live :) Posts: 372	Ok, this may be considered off topic, but not really We know that the men that were given rings were turned into wraiths right? Well what happened to the Dwaves and Elves? __________________ I'm Baaaack!!

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