Sauron is an eye

Yazad · 12-20-2002, 02:06 PM

Hiya everyone!

This is probably another old topic and probably more suitable in the books section, but it's really been bugging me with the Jackson film so I figured this is a good place for it.

What's the deal with Sauron being a disembodied eye? It has always been my interpretation that Sauron has a body, and I don't really think that that's disputable, is it?

At one point Frodo says to Gollum something like Isildur cut the finger from his hand. And Gollum replies "Yes, there are only 4 fingers on the black hand, but they are enough."

I think it's very cool that Sauron has to sustain physical disabilities which he suffered in an previous incarnation.

Anyway, Jackson & Co. are going all out saying that Sauron is nothing more than a single propane generated eye. I always liked the image of the eye as a symbol of Sauron (though I prefer the image of a dead eye (glazed, yellow as a cat's) rimmed with fire), but not as the entire physical form of Sauron.

What's the deal with that?

Yazad

***KhamÃ»l*** · 12-20-2002, 02:35 PM

I don't think that they mean that Sauron is only an eye. The way I see it (maybe it's just the books making me think this) is that Sauron has a physical form in Barad-DÃ»r. The eye is just his far-seeing manifestation.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-20-2002, 02:40 PM

Sauron could never take fair form again. Evidently his form became man like and somewhat larger than man size. His skin appeared black and burning hot.

Diaxion · 12-20-2002, 07:59 PM

well think of it this way if Saurun is just an eye than how would he have put the ring on?

LuthienTinuviel · 12-20-2002, 10:07 PM

SGH, i'd like to know more about that bit of the story, what part of what book is that in?

Millane · 12-21-2002, 12:20 AM

i always assumed ( cant remember if i saw it somewhere or in that case where it was sorry) that sauron was like a spirit in the darkness of mirkwood before he returned to barad dur and there he sits in his tower and sees all, all the while unable to assume a physical form.
i think what PJ was meaning was that all they need for the film is the Eye because they only had that little bit at the start of Fellowship with sauron in physical form, sort of like he said with treebeard they just had a huge talking head on set with Pippin and Merry, treebeard isnt really just a huge mechanical head...

Sween · 12-21-2002, 08:28 AM

sauron defintally has a physical form by the time of lord of the rings what use is the ring if he hasnt got a finger to put it on.

This was probably just an oversight by the producers

Lefty Scaevola · 12-21-2002, 11:09 AM

I expect that if disembodied, Sauron could have use a metaphysical 'finger' to use the ring. Just regaining would have greatly incresed his strenth, including to assume/change phsycical form.

Diaxion · 12-21-2002, 12:10 PM

Than again maybe PJ used the eye because it would be easier for the audiance to understand and it would make the movie able to flow better because the book flows because it is alowed to because there is no limit on pages but a movie has a limit and that is the time that the audiance can stand and the ability of people whou didn't read the book to understand it while staying true so that the people who read the book won't get mad

cassiopeia · 12-22-2002, 12:34 AM

When I was reading the book, I didn't picture Sauron as some guy walking around in a tower giving orders, but more of a malevolent presence. Perhaps that was what PJ was trying to get across to the audience.

Arathorn · 12-22-2002, 12:39 AM

I think that if Sauron is represented by a large burning eye and he was ever able to retrieve the One Ring, it would try to conform to him as it did with other ringbearers.

In Sauron's case, the One Ring will turn into one gigantic burning contact lens.

CurunÃr · 12-22-2002, 06:28 AM

In the early writings of Tolkien, he said that Sauron was a... CAT!

I found it in the book of lost tales I, foreword.

Millane · 12-22-2002, 07:03 AM

i think that at the top of Barad dur and in the fellowship when gandalf went to grab the ring in Bag End PJ had to put the eye there it would be hard to display in the movie that the carachters felt that he was watching them... like when frodo was on the seat at Amon Hen and he was searching and he felt the eye on him...
sauron a cat eh? well thats an idea i had never ever thought of

Arathorn · 12-22-2002, 08:59 AM

Hmmm...Sauron the cat searching for his collarbell of power:
One collarbell to rule them all
One collarbell to find them
One collarbell to bring them all
and in the litterbox bind them...

Blackboar · 12-22-2002, 11:16 AM

***Earniel*** · 12-25-2002, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CurunÃ*r
In the early writings of Tolkien, he said that Sauron was a... CAT!
I found it in the book of lost tales I, foreword.

I think this refered to Tevildo, the prince of cats who in the earlier writings and in the Book of Lost Tales was sort of Morgoth's righthand. Tevildo was dropped and Sauron came in the picture but I never actually thought about them being the same character.

Quote:

Originally posted by Arathorn
Hmmm...Sauron the cat searching for his collarbell of power:
One collarbell to rule them all
One collarbell to find them
One collarbell to bring them all
and in the litterbox bind them...

Neh, neh, neh, good one! I believe Tevildo had a special collar too.

To get back on topic, I never really got the impression from the movie that Sauron was only a gigantic flaming eye, just that he kept an eye (yes, I know, bad pun

) on his enemies and slaves through it.

Elf Girl · 12-25-2002, 01:04 PM

Sauron took the form of a

Quote:

man more than human stature, but not gigantic.

The Letters, No. 246

CurunÃr · 12-25-2002, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EÃ¤rniel
I think this refered to Tevildo, the prince of cats who in the earlier writings and in the Book of Lost Tales was sort of Morgoth's righthand. Tevildo was dropped and Sauron came in the picture but I never actually thought about them being the same character.

I found it here:
"In The Book Of Lost Tales the princes of the Noldor have scarcely emerged, nor the Grey-elves of Beleriand; Beren is an Elf, not a Man, and his captor, the ultimate precursor of Sauron in that rÃ´le, is a monstrous cat inhabited by a fiend ...

Book of Lost Tales I, foreword.

***Earniel*** · 12-25-2002, 04:01 PM

Hey, I wasn't saying I didn't believe you.

But I guess I worded it wrong.

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 12-25-2002, 07:56 PM

but, why only depict him as only an eye..and not the body too?

12-20-2002, 02:06 PM	#1
Yazad Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 56	Sauron is an eye Hiya everyone! This is probably another old topic and probably more suitable in the books section, but it's really been bugging me with the Jackson film so I figured this is a good place for it. What's the deal with Sauron being a disembodied eye? It has always been my interpretation that Sauron has a body, and I don't really think that that's disputable, is it? At one point Frodo says to Gollum something like Isildur cut the finger from his hand. And Gollum replies "Yes, there are only 4 fingers on the black hand, but they are enough." I think it's very cool that Sauron has to sustain physical disabilities which he suffered in an previous incarnation. Anyway, Jackson & Co. are going all out saying that Sauron is nothing more than a single propane generated eye. I always liked the image of the eye as a symbol of Sauron (though I prefer the image of a dead eye (glazed, yellow as a cat's) rimmed with fire), but not as the entire physical form of Sauron. What's the deal with that? Yazad Last edited by Yazad : 12-20-2002 at 02:08 PM.

12-20-2002, 02:35 PM	#2
*KhamÃ»l* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	I don't think that they mean that Sauron is only an eye. The way I see it (maybe it's just the books making me think this) is that Sauron has a physical form in Barad-DÃ»r. The eye is just his far-seeing manifestation. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

12-20-2002, 02:40 PM	#3
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Sauron could never take fair form again. Evidently his form became man like and somewhat larger than man size. His skin appeared black and burning hot. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

12-20-2002, 07:59 PM	#4
Diaxion Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 112	well think of it this way if Saurun is just an eye than how would he have put the ring on? __________________ good day

12-20-2002, 10:07 PM	#5
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	SGH, i'd like to know more about that bit of the story, what part of what book is that in? __________________

12-21-2002, 12:20 AM	#6
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	i always assumed ( cant remember if i saw it somewhere or in that case where it was sorry) that sauron was like a spirit in the darkness of mirkwood before he returned to barad dur and there he sits in his tower and sees all, all the while unable to assume a physical form. i think what PJ was meaning was that all they need for the film is the Eye because they only had that little bit at the start of Fellowship with sauron in physical form, sort of like he said with treebeard they just had a huge talking head on set with Pippin and Merry, treebeard isnt really just a huge mechanical head... __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, Last edited by Millane : 12-21-2002 at 12:22 AM.

12-21-2002, 08:28 AM	#7
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	sauron defintally has a physical form by the time of lord of the rings what use is the ring if he hasnt got a finger to put it on. This was probably just an oversight by the producers __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

12-21-2002, 11:09 AM	#8
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	I expect that if disembodied, Sauron could have use a metaphysical 'finger' to use the ring. Just regaining would have greatly incresed his strenth, including to assume/change phsycical form.

12-21-2002, 12:10 PM	#9
Diaxion Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 112	Than again maybe PJ used the eye because it would be easier for the audiance to understand and it would make the movie able to flow better because the book flows because it is alowed to because there is no limit on pages but a movie has a limit and that is the time that the audiance can stand and the ability of people whou didn't read the book to understand it while staying true so that the people who read the book won't get mad __________________ good day

12-22-2002, 12:34 AM	#10
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	When I was reading the book, I didn't picture Sauron as some guy walking around in a tower giving orders, but more of a malevolent presence. Perhaps that was what PJ was trying to get across to the audience. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

12-22-2002, 12:39 AM	#11
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	I think that if Sauron is represented by a large burning eye and he was ever able to retrieve the One Ring, it would try to conform to him as it did with other ringbearers. In Sauron's case, the One Ring will turn into one gigantic burning contact lens. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lÃºmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 12-22-2002 at 12:41 AM.

12-22-2002, 06:28 AM	#12
CurunÃr Enting Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: iepe kriepe friepe liepe Posts: 95	In the early writings of Tolkien, he said that Sauron was a... CAT! I found it in the book of lost tales I, foreword. __________________ Innie winnie frimmie zillie hoele kroele froele troele ape krape rape zape ulle frulle kulle a cup of milk huy!

12-22-2002, 07:03 AM	#13
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	i think that at the top of Barad dur and in the fellowship when gandalf went to grab the ring in Bag End PJ had to put the eye there it would be hard to display in the movie that the carachters felt that he was watching them... like when frodo was on the seat at Amon Hen and he was searching and he felt the eye on him... sauron a cat eh? well thats an idea i had never ever thought of __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

12-22-2002, 08:59 AM	#14
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Hmmm...Sauron the cat searching for his collarbell of power: One collarbell to rule them all One collarbell to find them One collarbell to bring them all and in the litterbox bind them... __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lÃºmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

12-22-2002, 11:16 AM	#15
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	LOL

12-25-2002, 04:01 PM	#19
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Hey, I wasn't saying I didn't believe you. But I guess I worded it wrong. __________________ We are not things.

12-25-2002, 07:56 PM	#20
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	but, why only depict him as only an eye..and not the body too? __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

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