12-20-2002, 02:01 PM | #1 |
Enting
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 56
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Who 'killed' Sauron
Hiya everyone!
This is probably an old topic and probably more suitable in the books section, but since it's been interpreted in both films this way, I figure it's good hear. I didn't find the old argument if there is one - could someone point me in the right direction. Okay, it's always been my interpretation that Gil-Galad and Elendil slew Sauron at the end of the 2nd age. This is supported by Gandalf's account in "Shadow of the Past" and also in one passage in "On the Rings of Power and the Third Age" (?) in The Silmarillion. Especially in the Silmarillion it's represented in a classic Beowulf way - Sauron came out and wrestled with Gil-Galad and Elendil and they were slain, but so was Sauron (my reading of it). *And then* Isildur came along, vulture like, and sawed the ring of Sauron's hand. Damn, I love it that way. However, in The Silmarillion Isildur also says "was it not I who dealt him the death blow?" which leads me to wonder if perhaps it was the taking of the ring which really did do in Sauron. Personally I think the removal of the ring = Sauron's demise is really, really silly. Take for example this scenario: Sauron is out and about, having a grand time slaying elves and men. Try though he might, he can't help but get blood all over his hands. Now elf blood, as we all know, is really tough to get off, so he goes home and uses some of that Orange Goop to help remove the stains. As we also all know Orange Goop really makes things slippery, and *oops!* the ring accidentally slips off his finger. Doh! Sauron blows up and his body burns away. Sounds kinda foolish to me, don't you think? Yazad |
12-20-2002, 02:08 PM | #2 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
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i really think that if your a drak king, your not out and about slaying willy nilly, you have your goblins, orcs, wargs etc do it for you.
i also think that maybe isildur might have had a hint of want for the ring, so he could have (not really on a conscious level) claimed for himself, dealing a blow to sauron, and maybe him bing sauron's enemy gae him a wound too. sorry about the spelling, im at school and most of the keys on the keyboard don't work. i think this belongs in the book forum too.
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12-20-2002, 02:18 PM | #3 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2002
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The film version is alot easier to understand, more accessable to the first time LOTR-er's. but i do understand your point...
Isildur is more involved in the story as well (what with aragorn and elendil etc...) so it makes more sense to only involve him i suppose... UP THE REVOLT! |
12-20-2002, 02:29 PM | #4 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Since this also involves discussion of Isuldir, I would say it is more suited to the Middle-earth forum. Moving
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
12-20-2002, 02:44 PM | #5 |
The Insufferable
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It was my understanding that gil galad and elendil had both failed to defeat sauron, but had weakened him enough that Isildur could finish the job.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
12-20-2002, 07:19 PM | #6 |
AngAdan
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Elendil had done serious enough, perhaps mortal, damage to Saurons body, that Saron fell and could get up. Saurons body fell on Elendil and burned him to death, as well as breaking narsil.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
12-20-2002, 08:00 PM | #7 | ||
Elf Lord
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From the Lord of the Rings, "The Ring Goes South", we have this from the mouth of Elrond:
Quote:
Quote:
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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12-21-2002, 02:12 AM | #8 |
Elven Warrior
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Sil
" But at last the seige was so strait that Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-Galad and Elendil, and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron was also thrown down, and with the hilt shard of Narsil Isildur cut the ruling ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own." Sauron killed Gil-Galad and Elendil, but was thrown down. Isildur runs over while Saurons on the ground and cuts the ring off.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
12-21-2002, 08:34 AM | #9 | |
im quite stupid
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Quote:
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
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12-21-2002, 11:06 AM | #10 |
AngAdan
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Actually, I bet that while everyone was looking a Gil-Galad and Elendil fighting Sauron, a hobbit stabed him in the anckle with a knitting needle and did him in.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
12-21-2002, 11:18 AM | #11 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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A knitting needle? I've always thought it was a pen...
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
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