NEW BOOKS OUT: major spoilers!!!

northsuperior · 11-11-2002, 10:52 PM

went to the local chapters this weekend and what did i see but TTT official movie guides and the making of TTT. leafed through them and wheeeeew major spolers galore.

OK DONT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT TO GET THE SPOLERS DUHHHHHH:
HER GOES ,

1. Aragorn intertcepts some wargs whilst escorting refugees ,and gets killed!!!! well thats what Gimli thinks and he tells this to Eowyn . who of course is horrified.
but......... hes only wounded and rescued by Brego, Theodreds horse whom he has befriended in a previous scene, who has been maddened by battle and his masters loss. Remember those scenes at TORN with Aragorn on the ground in front of a horse kneeling to pick him up??? they were late shots done a few months ago.

Aragorn then returns later with reports of Saruman army approaching helms deep. thats the shot of Aragorn opening the doors of the hall,( at helms deep it seems) you know the one where he looks like the doors are ten tons heavy and he overdramatising it, well he wounded , the teaser then shows, Theoden armoured and sitting but quickly swinging his head around with his advisor hama with him.
They cant belive hes alive i guess.
2. theoden himself casts wormtongue out of the golden hall and chases him with his sword.

3, Pippin and Merry escape the uruk hai when the riders attack, BUT they are chased by grishnack ( or however you spell his name) and guess who rescues them??????if you really have to guess.... you're way off track.
4 wormtongue and saruman discuss there plans whilst over a big pot " the fire of the orthanc", a kettle like thing thats shown later in the battle and during one part of the teaser. Itsd used to bring down the wall of the deep.

5 Eowyn protects the refugees in helms deep who have armed themselves to make a last stand if the outer walls fall, even kids are wearing armour.

6 Elrond goes to lorien to seek the counsel of galadriel, to see what they can do for the world of men. at first it seems they are willing to do knothing as any force they send would be a trifle and its best not to waste elf lives.
then they realize that they must turn Saurons eye away from the ring and on isenguard and Rohan, so the ring bearer has a chance to get to Mordor.
so thats why they send the elves to Helms deep.

7 Eomer is not at helms deep, he leads a charge of riders with Gandalf that forces the Uruk Hai back and into the new forest behind and won the dike , that subsequently swallows them up.( this is explained on a big pull out diagram showing helms deep the deeping comb the forest and the ridge where eomer attacks.

thats all i know i didnt buy the books, i think i will, but i stood there for an hour reading them until enough people i knew wondered what the heck i wuz doing, and i beat a path outta there

Northsuperior out!!!

Coney · 11-11-2002, 11:08 PM

I really hope this is a joke

Aeryn · 11-11-2002, 11:18 PM

Amen Coney.

If this is true, I will walk out.

Coney · 11-11-2002, 11:24 PM

If this is true I'll...........well I can't say what I'll do in this forum but it will certainly involve bodily fluids and disgruntled noises

bropous · 11-12-2002, 12:01 AM

Okay.

If these variations from the story are true, oh well. What can we do? We can't get Jackson to change his film, we would look pretty stupid standing outside theaters in the snow with signs reading "Jackson Veered From The Original Story Line: Pick Up The Books," and simply boycotting the film would be a big pain because we would miss some really prime-time Tolkien-inspired (because that, sadly, is all that it is) entertainment.

All we can do is appreciate the effort Jackson put forth, knowing that he has set a rather high bar for the NEXT director to come along and actually make the film directly from the books. The three films will be visual delights, and will echo the story with great frequency, and if we can set aside our upset at Jackson's uppity poetic license, we might actually come away saying the films aren't all that bad after all and can focus once again on our own inner portrait we paint using the pallette of Tolkien's words.

**crickhollow** · 11-12-2002, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Okay.

If these variations from the story are true, oh well. What can we do? We can't get Jackson to change his film, we would look pretty stupid standing outside theaters in the snow with signs reading "Jackson Veered From The Original Story Line: Pick Up The Books," and simply boycotting the film would be a big pain because we would miss some really prime-time Tolkien-inspired (because that, sadly, is all that it is) entertainment.

All we can do is appreciate the effort Jackson put forth, knowing that he has set a rather high bar for the NEXT director to come along and actually make the film directly from the books. The three films will be visual delights, and will echo the story with great frequency, and if we can set aside our upset at Jackson's uppity poetic license, we might actually come away saying the films aren't all that bad after all and can focus once again on our own inner portrait we paint using the pallette of Tolkien's words.

That's tremendous advice, bropous. However, it's so much fun to be shushed in the theater by a group of forty friends when I stand up and yell, "that's not how it's supposed to happen!" that I think I'll do that once and get it out of my system, and then go and see the movie and enjoy it as a terrific, Tolkien-inspired film.

Entlover · 11-12-2002, 01:25 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by northsuperior
[B] Pippin and Merry escape the uruk hai when the riders attack, BUT they are chased by grishnack ( or however you spell his name) and guess who rescues them??????if you really have to guess.... you're way off track.
__________________________________________________---

I got it -- it's Arwen! Of course.

Jackson already said TT will be less like the books than either of the other two -- with extrapolations and invented scenes. But y'know, Tolkien himself said he hoped people would take his books as a starting point for new adventures. I suppose these could fall into that category.

**crickhollow** · 11-12-2002, 01:30 AM

Arwen doesn't seem plausible. Treebeard would be the obvious answer, but I'm sensing that this is a trick question. I'll vote for Gandalf, as (in the book anyway) he was wandering around fangorn already.

so what's the answer, northsuperior?

Millane · 11-12-2002, 03:43 AM

everyone seems to give PJ a hard time about the movies... the first one was awesome ... it isnt the end of the world for me if the movies arnt like the book i definately wont be walking out on it...
Jackson said that these next movies are not going to be as true to the books but they are supposed to be a lot better than the FOTR and it might just be me but i reckon they were awesome... i have said it before but the movies arnt just for fans of the book, or even for those people that have read the book... My little twin brothers havnt read the book but they absolutely love it...

Dunadan · 11-12-2002, 05:46 AM

It actually sounds pretty close to the story. It would seem obvious to make more of the pillaging of Rohan prior to Helm's Deep to build up to that battle. Sounds like they've swapped Eomer for Erkenbrand, and changed the movement of characters, but not much else. And all Eowyn fans get to see her strut her stuff before ROTK.

The major change seems to be the introduction of elves into the southern battles. Presumably this is to keep up the love interest, show that they're doing something other than heading for the havens, and make more of the Anduril/Narsil and Estel things.

For me, a big success of the first film was how they put across the sense of loss of the elves. Galadriel is the one who ties it all together. So they have to get her and them into TTT, or else it'll look totally disjointed to the non book-literate audience. It will also help to make clear to them that there is a strategy in drawing Sauron out, which helps Frodo.

On balance, this is OK. We get the Riders of Rohan scene, Uruk-hai, Treebeard, Gandalf-as-Saruman, Helm's Deep and oliphaunts. I can live with that.

cheers

d.

viggosbeard · 11-12-2002, 07:26 AM

I think we all knew there were going to be changes, and as long as they stay within the " feel " of the books, then im not going to winge.If pj had followed the books to the letter people would still have had a go about something - lets face it Gandalfs eyebrows are way too short ! I think Bropous hit it pretty square, Tolkien inspired entertainment, lets face it, nobody can make the film that we all have in our heads and hearts, but pj is making a pretty good fist of it !

bropous · 11-12-2002, 10:38 AM

Well, if Arwen DOES end up saving Merry and Pippin from Grishnakh, I will be completely incapable of not blurting, "bullSH*T!!!!!!!!" when her slightly mongoloidish features stain the screen.

I may ACCEPT the changes, but by golly, I ain't gotta LIKE 'em! LOL!

Who cares. THIS will not be the "definitive" visualization of Tolkien's works. THE definitive visual version will be a "virtual-reality movie" produced in the first half of the twenty-third century.

Dunadan · 11-12-2002, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Who cares. THIS will not be the "definitive" visualization of Tolkien's works. THE definitive visual version will be a "virtual-reality movie" produced in the first half of the twenty-third century.

OK, that's it. I'm going down the shops and getting cryogenically frozen first thing tomorrow morning.

viggosbeard · 11-12-2002, 12:13 PM

you do realise that if i get frozen and brought round in the year whatever to star in the lord of the rings virtual reality movie, Aragorn will be a little fat skinhead ! scary thought.

Firekitten2006 · 11-12-2002, 08:18 PM

If it flows well i wont be angry. but if its as bad as it sounds I will walk out. i couldnt even read all of those spoilers

Shadowfax · 11-12-2002, 09:37 PM

Right now, this is all I can say: GGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

viggosbeard · 11-13-2002, 04:58 AM

i watched the extended dvd last night and there is a peice in it called something like from the text to the screen , pj and a couple of people cover this topic and give their reasons - worth a watch,
pretty valid if you believe they know what they are doing.

I wonder how many people will walk out?????!!!

BeardofPants · 11-13-2002, 05:26 AM

I'll probably be the only New Zealander to walk out.

viggosbeard · 11-13-2002, 05:58 AM

are you going to give it the old dramatic " i cannot be part of this travesty anymore ! " and flounce out, or more of a dignified, head held high ,moral high ground exit ?

could you be excommunicated in new Zealand for walking out ?

viggosbeard · 11-13-2002, 09:00 AM

ive just seen who rescues merry and pippin - not as bad as i was thinking !

11-11-2002, 10:52 PM	#1
northsuperior Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: northern ontario canada Posts: 22	NEW BOOKS OUT: major spoilers!!! went to the local chapters this weekend and what did i see but TTT official movie guides and the making of TTT. leafed through them and wheeeeew major spolers galore. OK DONT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT TO GET THE SPOLERS DUHHHHHH: HER GOES , 1. Aragorn intertcepts some wargs whilst escorting refugees ,and gets killed!!!! well thats what Gimli thinks and he tells this to Eowyn . who of course is horrified. but......... hes only wounded and rescued by Brego, Theodreds horse whom he has befriended in a previous scene, who has been maddened by battle and his masters loss. Remember those scenes at TORN with Aragorn on the ground in front of a horse kneeling to pick him up??? they were late shots done a few months ago. Aragorn then returns later with reports of Saruman army approaching helms deep. thats the shot of Aragorn opening the doors of the hall,( at helms deep it seems) you know the one where he looks like the doors are ten tons heavy and he overdramatising it, well he wounded , the teaser then shows, Theoden armoured and sitting but quickly swinging his head around with his advisor hama with him. They cant belive hes alive i guess. 2. theoden himself casts wormtongue out of the golden hall and chases him with his sword. 3, Pippin and Merry escape the uruk hai when the riders attack, BUT they are chased by grishnack ( or however you spell his name) and guess who rescues them??????if you really have to guess.... you're way off track. 4 wormtongue and saruman discuss there plans whilst over a big pot " the fire of the orthanc", a kettle like thing thats shown later in the battle and during one part of the teaser. Itsd used to bring down the wall of the deep. 5 Eowyn protects the refugees in helms deep who have armed themselves to make a last stand if the outer walls fall, even kids are wearing armour. 6 Elrond goes to lorien to seek the counsel of galadriel, to see what they can do for the world of men. at first it seems they are willing to do knothing as any force they send would be a trifle and its best not to waste elf lives. then they realize that they must turn Saurons eye away from the ring and on isenguard and Rohan, so the ring bearer has a chance to get to Mordor. so thats why they send the elves to Helms deep. 7 Eomer is not at helms deep, he leads a charge of riders with Gandalf that forces the Uruk Hai back and into the new forest behind and won the dike , that subsequently swallows them up.( this is explained on a big pull out diagram showing helms deep the deeping comb the forest and the ridge where eomer attacks. thats all i know i didnt buy the books, i think i will, but i stood there for an hour reading them until enough people i knew wondered what the heck i wuz doing, and i beat a path outta there Northsuperior out!!!

11-11-2002, 11:08 PM	#2
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	I really hope this is a joke __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

11-11-2002, 11:18 PM	#3
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Amen Coney. If this is true, I will walk out. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

11-11-2002, 11:24 PM	#4
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	If this is true I'll...........well I can't say what I'll do in this forum but it will certainly involve bodily fluids and disgruntled noises __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

11-12-2002, 12:01 AM	#5
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Okay. If these variations from the story are true, oh well. What can we do? We can't get Jackson to change his film, we would look pretty stupid standing outside theaters in the snow with signs reading "Jackson Veered From The Original Story Line: Pick Up The Books," and simply boycotting the film would be a big pain because we would miss some really prime-time Tolkien-inspired (because that, sadly, is all that it is) entertainment. All we can do is appreciate the effort Jackson put forth, knowing that he has set a rather high bar for the NEXT director to come along and actually make the film directly from the books. The three films will be visual delights, and will echo the story with great frequency, and if we can set aside our upset at Jackson's uppity poetic license, we might actually come away saying the films aren't all that bad after all and can focus once again on our own inner portrait we paint using the pallette of Tolkien's words. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

11-12-2002, 01:25 AM	#7
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	Re: NEW BOOKS OUT: major spoilers!!! [QUOTE]Originally posted by northsuperior [B] Pippin and Merry escape the uruk hai when the riders attack, BUT they are chased by grishnack ( or however you spell his name) and guess who rescues them??????if you really have to guess.... you're way off track. __________________________________________________--- I got it -- it's Arwen! Of course. Jackson already said TT will be less like the books than either of the other two -- with extrapolations and invented scenes. But y'know, Tolkien himself said he hoped people would take his books as a starting point for new adventures. I suppose these could fall into that category.

11-12-2002, 01:30 AM	#8
crickhollow The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas). Posts: 1,345	Arwen doesn't seem plausible. Treebeard would be the obvious answer, but I'm sensing that this is a trick question. I'll vote for Gandalf, as (in the book anyway) he was wandering around fangorn already. so what's the answer, northsuperior? __________________ A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.

11-12-2002, 03:43 AM	#9
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	give PJ a break everyone seems to give PJ a hard time about the movies... the first one was awesome ... it isnt the end of the world for me if the movies arnt like the book i definately wont be walking out on it... Jackson said that these next movies are not going to be as true to the books but they are supposed to be a lot better than the FOTR and it might just be me but i reckon they were awesome... i have said it before but the movies arnt just for fans of the book, or even for those people that have read the book... My little twin brothers havnt read the book but they absolutely love it... __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

11-12-2002, 05:46 AM	#10
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	It actually sounds pretty close to the story. It would seem obvious to make more of the pillaging of Rohan prior to Helm's Deep to build up to that battle. Sounds like they've swapped Eomer for Erkenbrand, and changed the movement of characters, but not much else. And all Eowyn fans get to see her strut her stuff before ROTK. The major change seems to be the introduction of elves into the southern battles. Presumably this is to keep up the love interest, show that they're doing something other than heading for the havens, and make more of the Anduril/Narsil and Estel things. For me, a big success of the first film was how they put across the sense of loss of the elves. Galadriel is the one who ties it all together. So they have to get her and them into TTT, or else it'll look totally disjointed to the non book-literate audience. It will also help to make clear to them that there is a strategy in drawing Sauron out, which helps Frodo. On balance, this is OK. We get the Riders of Rohan scene, Uruk-hai, Treebeard, Gandalf-as-Saruman, Helm's Deep and oliphaunts. I can live with that. cheers d.

11-12-2002, 07:26 AM	#11
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	I think we all knew there were going to be changes, and as long as they stay within the " feel " of the books, then im not going to winge.If pj had followed the books to the letter people would still have had a go about something - lets face it Gandalfs eyebrows are way too short ! I think Bropous hit it pretty square, Tolkien inspired entertainment, lets face it, nobody can make the film that we all have in our heads and hearts, but pj is making a pretty good fist of it ! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

11-12-2002, 10:38 AM	#12
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, if Arwen DOES end up saving Merry and Pippin from Grishnakh, I will be completely incapable of not blurting, "bullSH*T!!!!!!!!" when her slightly mongoloidish features stain the screen. I may ACCEPT the changes, but by golly, I ain't gotta LIKE 'em! LOL! Who cares. THIS will not be the "definitive" visualization of Tolkien's works. THE definitive visual version will be a "virtual-reality movie" produced in the first half of the twenty-third century. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

11-12-2002, 12:13 PM	#14
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	you do realise that if i get frozen and brought round in the year whatever to star in the lord of the rings virtual reality movie, Aragorn will be a little fat skinhead ! scary thought. __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

11-12-2002, 08:18 PM	#15
Firekitten2006 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the US of A! But I wish i was in austraila, never been, just think it would be a fun place to live :) Posts: 372	If it flows well i wont be angry. but if its as bad as it sounds I will walk out. i couldnt even read all of those spoilers __________________ I'm Baaaack!!

11-12-2002, 09:37 PM	#16
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	Right now, this is all I can say: GGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

11-13-2002, 04:58 AM	#17
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	i watched the extended dvd last night and there is a peice in it called something like from the text to the screen , pj and a couple of people cover this topic and give their reasons - worth a watch, pretty valid if you believe they know what they are doing. I wonder how many people will walk out?????!!! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

11-13-2002, 05:26 AM	#18
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'll probably be the only New Zealander to walk out. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-13-2002, 05:58 AM	#19
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	are you going to give it the old dramatic " i cannot be part of this travesty anymore ! " and flounce out, or more of a dignified, head held high ,moral high ground exit ? could you be excommunicated in new Zealand for walking out ? __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams Last edited by viggosbeard : 11-13-2002 at 05:59 AM.

11-13-2002, 09:00 AM	#20
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	ive just seen who rescues merry and pippin - not as bad as i was thinking ! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
books to read and books not to read	Gil-Galad 2.0	Lord of the Rings Books	25	07-29-2006 12:21 AM
Things We Love To Hate About The LotR Trilogy	Telcontar_Dunedain	Lord of the Rings Movies	87	09-05-2005 10:08 PM
What do you think?	samwiselvr2008	Harry Potter	17	05-08-2003 03:10 PM
Why Books are Better than Drugs	emplynx	General Literature	160	09-20-2002 07:03 PM
I am going to buy some books!!!!!	emplynx	General Literature	15	05-13-2002 07:32 PM