Wwii?

Fred Baggins · 11-03-2002, 05:39 PM

I have been reading The Diary of Anne Frank, and I relized that I still don't understand how Hitler could be so discrimnative. I mean A world war was started mainly because one man can't stand the looks, appearances, belifes, of another man. How could anyone be such a jerk?

Treebeard's apprentice · 11-03-2002, 05:48 PM

It's my belief that he wasn't a jerk, just a power-hungry madman, and Jews seemed like an easy target. That's probably not exactly correct, but only my own general opinion.

katya · 11-03-2002, 06:39 PM

I admit i don't know all that much about the subject but here is my input.
I had an exchange student last summer from Germany and he had a lot to say about what really happened, and about Hitler's ideas and such. He says that what he wanted to do was help Germany. Germany was going through a hard time. According to this guy, Hitler basically blamed the Jews for any economic problems, saying that they kind of took money out of the ecomony and used it for themselves. So he was like, if we get rid of the Jews, we will be great. That is in a nutshell asn opinion that i guess isn't really mine because after all, I don't know that much, but that's what a German thinks.

markedel · 11-03-2002, 06:59 PM

Of course why he thoguht so is rather complicated...

Starr Polish · 11-03-2002, 07:00 PM

Katya's right. Germany had been hit hard during WWI, and Hitler was trying to build it back up. He needed a scapegoat, so he chose the Jews, since they would be an easy target.

Though, a lot of people forget a few things. He also persecuted homosexuals, mentally disabled or insane (I think...), and gypsies, to name a few. Also, not all non-Jew Germans were Nazis or Nazi supporters. I remember very little about a group called The White Rose Society (?). A friend of mine made a comment on how she hated Germans after we did a section on the Holocaust in World History. Huh...perhaps she had better look in her family tree, or any of her friends. Many, many Americans are of German descent, including me.

Fred Baggins · 11-03-2002, 07:04 PM

I never said i had anything against Germans! I am mostly German myself and proud of it! I used to dream about living in Germany. I am just saying that I don't like people who are discrimnative against people because of who they happen to be.

Comic Book Guy · 11-03-2002, 07:16 PM

Quote:

I mean A world war was started mainly because one man can't stand the looks, appearances, belifes, of another man. How could anyone be such a jerk?

Well, Hitler didn't hate the Jews because of their looks, as that was just fantasy created by the Nazis in order to demonize the Jews via proganda.

Quote:

According to this guy, Hitler basically blamed the Jews for any economic problems, saying that they kind of took money out of the ecomony and used it for themselves. So he was like, if we get rid of the Jews, we will be great. That is in a nutshell asn opinion that i guess isn't really mine because after all, I don't know that much, but that's what a German thinks.

The Nazis blamed the Jews for economic disasters such as the depression and hyperinflation and other political events such as World War 1, which again was utter fantasy.

It's important to note that it wasn't all Hitler's work, other key Nazis such as Gobbeals had a very key role in Nazi Germany and there is no proof that Hitler had any role in the Final Solution.

Historians believe that Hitler's anti-semitism came from his youth. While Hitler was at school, his rival was a Jew also when Hitler was living in poverty he was forced to live in a Jewish area. The following is complete speculation but I think one of Hitlers former lovers (Which may have been male) was a Jew.

Coney · 11-03-2002, 07:27 PM

I'm certainly not promoting Nazism but if you want Hitlers own thoughts on the Jews read Mein Kampf.

http://www.stormfront.org/books/mein_kampf/index.html

Chronology of the holocaust-

http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/tlink/soci...hronology.html

Edit:felt I had to put something to give more insight into the actual holocaust itself, from a different perspective than Mein Kampf.

One of the great Auschwitz survivors was the Italian-Jew Primo Levi....this is a brief biography of his life and work

http://www.themodernword.com/scriptorium/levi.html

IMO Levi's book If This is a Man/The Truce, his account of his life during and after WW2, should be read by everyone

katya · 11-03-2002, 07:36 PM

I am told that in Germany Mein Kampf is banned. I have been meaning to read it though.

Fred Baggins · 11-03-2002, 07:37 PM

*Stares at it wide eyed* I'll read it...be back in a few days...

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-03-2002, 08:15 PM

At the time that, Hitler was a child of a single parent, namely his mother, and they were extreamly poor. He watched as his mother struggled to make ends meet and that always didn't happen. When he was of working age, he went out to find work, and could not get hired. Many of the establihments he applied at were Jewish. At that point the Jews were very well to do in Germany. He became insensed. He made it a goal in his life to create a perfect race of blonde haired blue eyed people that would be totally superior to anything on the planet. To achieve that, in his mind, he would have to eliminate the races that he felt was inferior. He started with the Jews, because that was the race that he was most troubled with. It didn't stop there though. Had he been successful, he planned to exterminate every race that was not to his liking. He wanted to create a genetically perect race.

Aeryn · 11-03-2002, 11:42 PM

Not to mention, he was a member of the occult, which altered his thinking.

Quote:

He wanted to create a perfect race- by SGH

, Yes he did, but he thought that the Jews were subhumans, and that the Arians were as close as it came to the 'perfect' race, so he would we out the people who supposedly held back the Arians, which was the Jews.

A Hopefully brief backround history on Hitler (Pre- holocaust)

Adolf Hitler was born on April 20, 1889, the fourth child of Alois Schickelgruber and Klara Hitler in the Austrian town of Braunau. Two of his siblings died from diphtheria when they were children, and one died shortly after birth. Alois was a customs official, illegitimate by birth, who was described by his housemaid as a "very strict but comfortable" man. Young Adolf was showered with love and affection by his mother.
When Adolf was three years old, the family moved to Passau, along the Inn River on the German side of the border. A brother, Edmond, was born two years later. The family moved once more in 1895 to the farm community of Hafeld, 30 miles southwest of Linz. Another sister, Paula, was born in 1896, the sixth of the union, supplemented by a half brother and half sister from one of his father's two previous marriages.

Following another family move, Adolf lived for six months across from a large Benedictine monastery. The monastery's coat of arms' most salient feature was a swastika. As a youngster, Adolf's dream was to enter the priesthood. While there is anecdotal evidence that Adolf's father regularly beat him during his childhood, it was not unusual for discipline to be enforced in that way during that period.

By 1900, Hitler's talents as an artist surfaced. He did well enough in school to be eligible for either the university preparatory "gymnasium" or the technical/scientific Realschule. Because the latter had a course in drawing, Adolf accepted his father's decision to enroll him in the Realschule. He did not do well there.

Adolf's father died in 1903 after suffering a pleural hemorrhage. Adolf himself suffered from lung infections, and he quit school at the age of 16, partially the result of ill health and partially the result of poor school work.

In 1906, Adolf was permitted to visit Vienna, but he was unable to gain admission to a prestigious art school. His mother developed terminal breast cancer and was treated by Dr. Edward Bloch, a Jewish doctor who served the poor. After an operation and excruciatingly painful and expensive treatments with a dangerous drug, she died on December 21, 1907.

Hitler spent six years in Vienna, living on a small legacy from his father and an orphan's pension. Virtually penniless by 1909, he wandered Vienna as a transient, sleeping in bars, flophouses, and shelters for the homeless, including, ironically, those financed by Jewish philanthropists. It was during this period that he developed his prejudices about Jews, his interest in politics, and debating skills. According to John Toland's biography, Adolf Hitler, two of his closest friends at this time were Jewish, and he admired Jewish art dealers and Jewish operatic performers and producers. However, Vienna was a center of anti-Semitism, and the media's portrayal of Jews as scapegoats with stereotyped attributes did not escape Hitler's fascination.

In May 1913, Hitler, seeking to avoid military service, left Vienna for Munich, the capital of Bavaria, following a windfall received from an aunt who was dying. In January, the police came to his door bearing a draft notice from the Austrian government. The document threatened a year in prison and a fine if he was found guilty of leaving his native land with the intent of evading conscription. Hitler was arrested on the spot and taken to the Austrian Consulate. Upon reporting to Salzburg for duty, he was found "unfit...too weak...and unable to bear arms."

Aeryn · 11-03-2002, 11:44 PM

Mein Kampf
Hitler served only nine months of his five-year term. While in prison, he wrote the first volume of Mein Kampf. It was partly an autobiographical book (although filled with glorified inaccuracies, self-serving half-truths and outright revisionism) which also detailed his views on the future of the German people. There were several targets of the vicious diatribes in the book, such as democrats, Communists, and internationalists. But he reserved the brunt of his vituperation for the Jews, whom he portrayed as responsible for all of the problems and evils of the world, particularly democracy, Communism, and internationalism, as well as Germany's defeat in the War. Jews were the German nation's true enemy, he wrote. They had no culture of their own, he asserted, but perverted existing cultures such as Germany's with their parasitism. As such, they were not a race, but an anti-race.
"[The Jews'] ultimate goal is the denaturalization, the promiscuous bastardization of other peoples, the lowering of the racial level of the highest peoples as well as the domination of his racial mishmash through the extirpation of the folkish intelligentsia and its replacement by the members of his own people," he wrote. On the contrary, the German people were of the highest racial purity and those destined to be the master race according to Hitler. To maintain that purity, it was necessary to avoid intermarriage with subhuman races such as Jews and Slavs.

Germany could stop the Jews from conquering the world only by eliminating them. By doing so, Germany could also find Lebensraum, living space, without which the superior German culture would decay. This living space, Hitler continued, would come from conquering Russia (which was under the control of Jewish Marxists, he believed) and the Slavic countries. This empire would be launched after democracy was eliminated and a "FÅhrer" called upon to rebuild the German Reich.

A second volume of Mein Kampf was published in 1927. It included a history of the Nazi party to that time and its program, as well as a primer on how to obtain and retain political power, how to use propaganda and terrorism, and how to build a political organization.

While Mein Kampf was crudely written and filled with embarrassing tangents and ramblings, it struck a responsive chord among its target those Germans who believed it was their destiny to dominate the world. The book sold over five million copies by the start of World War II.

Hitler's Rise to Power
Once released from prison, Hitler decided to seize power constitutionally rather than by force of arms. Using demagogic oratory, Hitler spoke to scores of mass audiences, calling for the German people to resist the yoke of Jews and Communists, and to create a new empire which would rule the world for 1,000 years.
Hitler's Nazi party captured 18% of the popular vote in the 1930 elections. In 1932, Hitler ran for President and won 30% of the vote, forcing the eventual victor, Paul von Hindenburg, into a runoff election. A political deal was made to make Hitler chancellor in exchange for his political support. He was appointed to that office in January 1933.

Upon the death of Hindenburg in August 1934, Hitler was the consensus successor. With an improving economy, Hitler claimed credit and consolidated his position as a dictator, having succeeded in eliminating challenges from other political parties and government institutions. The German industrial machine was built up in preparation for war. By 1937, he was comfortable enough to put his master plan, as outlined in Mein Kampf, into effect. Calling his top military aides together at the "FÅhrer Conference" in November 1937, he outlined his plans for world domination. Those who objected to the plan were dismissed.

Hitler Launches the War
Hitler ordered the annexation of Austria and the Sudetenland in 1938. Hitler's army invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, sparking France and England to declare war on Germany. A Blitzkrieg (lightning war) of German tanks and infantry swept through most of Western Europe as nation after nation fell to the German war machine.
In 1941, Hitler ignored a non-aggression pact he had signed with the Soviet Union in August 1939. Several early victories after the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, were reversed with crushing defeats at Moscow (December 1941) and Stalingrad (winter, 1942-43). The United States entered the war in December 1941. By 1944, the Allies invaded occupied Europe at Normandy Beach on the French coast, German cities were being destroyed by bombing, and Italy, Germany's major ally under the leadership of Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, had fallen.

Aeryn · 11-03-2002, 11:47 PM

Hitler's Last Days
Several attempts were made on Hitler's life during the war, but none was successful. As the war appeared to be inevitably lost and his hand-picked lieutenants, seeing the futility, defied his orders, he killed himself on April 30, 1945. His long-term mistress and new bride, Eva Braun, joined him in suicide. By that time, one of his chief objectives was achieved with the annihilation of two-thirds of European Jewry.

The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party
What we now call a party manifesto.

1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.

4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.
We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:

11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

Aeryn · 11-03-2002, 11:49 PM

13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation[37] of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist
ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.

(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.

(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.

Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.

24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle: COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

If you would like to read an article, posted by the Times in 1938 go here:
http://www.time.com/time/special/moy/1938.html

jerseydevil · 11-04-2002, 04:13 PM

I had heard that it was the death of his mother "at the hands" of a Jewish doctor that really made him hate jews.

World War II is extremely complicated - from the Treaty of Versailles after WWI - to the reduction of German rights to the holocaust and the ultimate goal of world domination by a madman.

It is interesting that the race of people he claimed were superior and was attempting to create (blue eyed, blond hair) he was not part of. There are beliefs (I don't think anything was ever proven) that he was gay. The Hitler Youth also included girls (whose main purpose was to have babies). Although sex was forbidden among the boys and girls, it was expected that when they were married they would be breeding machines.

Here are a number of videos (shows) that the History Channel has on Hitler.

He also recruited and brainwashed children. They're referred to as Hitler Youth

Here is a page with a bunch of links on the Hitler Youth movement - The Hitler Youth Movement Resource Page

A good movie is Uprising. It was a made for TV movie about the Warsaw Ghetto.

Quote:

Originally broadcast in November 2001, this exceptional made-for-television film recalls Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan while forging its own distinct identity. It was the first American film to dramatize the Warsaw Ghetto uprising of 1943, during which an underground collective of Polish Jews dared to defy the Nazis. Hank Azaria leads an all-star cast as resistance leader Mordecai Anielewicz, and the film follows his close-knit collaborators (including David Schwimmer and Leelee Sobieski) and their battle against the Nazi general (Jon Voight) assigned to clear all Jews from Warsaw.

The uprising was eventually crushed (some heartbreaking outcomes are listed in the closing credits), but director Jon Avnet expertly maintains a sense of courage and hope amidst the palpable horror of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Combining physical and historical accuracy with intimate character details, Uprising is suspenseful without being sensational, thus honoring one of the greatest symbolic victories in all of Jewish history

Holland Under the Third Reich - THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS

Nazi Propaganda: 1933-1945

In terms of Mein Kampf being censored in Germany - many things are censored there, as they are throughout Europe. I am against censorship - pure and simple. Although I don't agree with this person's political beliefs (white supremicist), I do believe he has a right to spout off all he wants - just like I and many millions of Americans can disagree with him. Censorship is on the rise. Is it coming to America?. The video game Wolfenstein 3D is also banned in Germany, as are many other video games, books, cds and movies.

Draken · 11-04-2002, 05:27 PM

World War 2 was probably inevitable from the moment the Treaty of Versailles was penned. Maybe it would have been less unpleasant in Europe if someone other than Hitler had come to power, maybe not. Germany was seething for revenge just as France had been after the defeat of 1870.

Add the growth of communism scaring the wealth creators and the Depression and you had a pretty volatile mix in Europe that the Fascists manipulated well. People who should have known better saw the Nazis as a useful tool in checking the Communists. Almost brings to mind the CIA backing the Ba'athist Party's overthrow of the communist regime in Iraq, allowing a young Saddam Hussein his first taste of power...be careful what you wish for in world politics, it might just come true!

To me the most instructive thing about Hitler's rise is how he manipulated a democratic republic with a model constitution to become its elected leader. That's a lesson that's needs learning and guarding against. The Jews were useful scapegoats for defeat in 1918 and the depression of the 30s, but with nobody arguing the counter the persecution of them spiralled beyond anything ever seen before.

And let's not get too Eurocentric about that war. For the Chinese, WW2 started in 1936 (I think? Maybe 1937) with the invasion by the Japanese - who quite independently to Hitler were pushing for their own Empire that carried it's own equally repulsive ideals of a master race with it.

As to censorship, I can't say I blame the German lawmakers for
wanting to make a rebirth of Nazism as difficult as possible. Whether it has made a difference or not is debatable. Driving something underground can give it a certain glamour. I can remember being outraged as a kid that Airfix had to modify it's decals on export kits for the West German market as swastikas were banned - that Stukas flew with swastikas on them is a matter of record, not a political statement!

***Earniel*** · 11-04-2002, 07:04 PM

Interesting that this topic comes up, a week before the 11th November.

11-03-2002, 05:39 PM	#1
Fred Baggins Belladona Gamgee of the night sky Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: second star to the right and straight on till morning. Posts: 1,783	Wwii? I have been reading The Diary of Anne Frank, and I relized that I still don't understand how Hitler could be so discrimnative. I mean A world war was started mainly because one man can't stand the looks, appearances, belifes, of another man. How could anyone be such a jerk? __________________ Emperor Cusco: Lemme guess. We're about to go down a huge water-fall. Pacha:Yep. Cusco: Sharp rocks at the bottum? Pacha:Most likely. Cusco:Bring it on. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Yes, I'm female. Fred Baggins is my NICKNAME! ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "The reason of the unreasonable treatment of my reason so enfeebles my reason, that with reason I complain of your beauty."~Don Quixote ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Once upon a time there was a magical land where it never rained. The End."~from the movie 'Holes' ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ()_))_Crayola_))_>

11-03-2002, 06:59 PM	#4
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Of course why he thoguht so is rather complicated... __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

11-03-2002, 07:00 PM	#5
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Katya's right. Germany had been hit hard during WWI, and Hitler was trying to build it back up. He needed a scapegoat, so he chose the Jews, since they would be an easy target. Though, a lot of people forget a few things. He also persecuted homosexuals, mentally disabled or insane (I think...), and gypsies, to name a few. Also, not all non-Jew Germans were Nazis or Nazi supporters. I remember very little about a group called The White Rose Society (?). A friend of mine made a comment on how she hated Germans after we did a section on the Holocaust in World History. Huh...perhaps she had better look in her family tree, or any of her friends. Many, many Americans are of German descent, including me. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

11-03-2002, 07:04 PM	#6
Fred Baggins Belladona Gamgee of the night sky Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: second star to the right and straight on till morning. Posts: 1,783	I never said i had anything against Germans! I am mostly German myself and proud of it! I used to dream about living in Germany. I am just saying that I don't like people who are discrimnative against people because of who they happen to be. __________________ Emperor Cusco: Lemme guess. We're about to go down a huge water-fall. Pacha:Yep. Cusco: Sharp rocks at the bottum? Pacha:Most likely. Cusco:Bring it on. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Yes, I'm female. Fred Baggins is my NICKNAME! ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "The reason of the unreasonable treatment of my reason so enfeebles my reason, that with reason I complain of your beauty."~Don Quixote ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Once upon a time there was a magical land where it never rained. The End."~from the movie 'Holes' ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ()_))_Crayola_))_>

11-03-2002, 07:27 PM	#8
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	I'm certainly not promoting Nazism but if you want Hitlers own thoughts on the Jews read Mein Kampf. http://www.stormfront.org/books/mein_kampf/index.html Chronology of the holocaust- http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/tlink/soci...hronology.html Edit:felt I had to put something to give more insight into the actual holocaust itself, from a different perspective than Mein Kampf. One of the great Auschwitz survivors was the Italian-Jew Primo Levi....this is a brief biography of his life and work http://www.themodernword.com/scriptorium/levi.html IMO Levi's book If This is a Man/The Truce, his account of his life during and after WW2, should be read by everyone __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica Last edited by Coney : 11-03-2002 at 11:56 PM.

11-03-2002, 05:48 PM	#2
Treebeard's apprentice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wherever I may roam Posts: 207	It's my belief that he wasn't a jerk, just a power-hungry madman, and Jews seemed like an easy target. That's probably not exactly correct, but only my own general opinion.

11-03-2002, 06:39 PM	#3
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I admit i don't know all that much about the subject but here is my input. I had an exchange student last summer from Germany and he had a lot to say about what really happened, and about Hitler's ideas and such. He says that what he wanted to do was help Germany. Germany was going through a hard time. According to this guy, Hitler basically blamed the Jews for any economic problems, saying that they kind of took money out of the ecomony and used it for themselves. So he was like, if we get rid of the Jews, we will be great. That is in a nutshell asn opinion that i guess isn't really mine because after all, I don't know that much, but that's what a German thinks.

11-03-2002, 07:36 PM	#9
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I am told that in Germany Mein Kampf is banned. I have been meaning to read it though.

11-03-2002, 07:37 PM	#10
Fred Baggins Belladona Gamgee of the night sky Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: second star to the right and straight on till morning. Posts: 1,783	Stares at it wide eyed I'll read it...be back in a few days... __________________ Emperor Cusco: Lemme guess. We're about to go down a huge water-fall. Pacha:Yep. Cusco: Sharp rocks at the bottum? Pacha:Most likely. Cusco:Bring it on. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Yes, I'm female. Fred Baggins is my NICKNAME! ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "The reason of the unreasonable treatment of my reason so enfeebles my reason, that with reason I complain of your beauty."~Don Quixote ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Once upon a time there was a magical land where it never rained. The End."~from the movie 'Holes' ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ()_))_Crayola_))_> Last edited by Fred Baggins : 11-03-2002 at 07:39 PM.

11-03-2002, 08:15 PM	#11
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	At the time that, Hitler was a child of a single parent, namely his mother, and they were extreamly poor. He watched as his mother struggled to make ends meet and that always didn't happen. When he was of working age, he went out to find work, and could not get hired. Many of the establihments he applied at were Jewish. At that point the Jews were very well to do in Germany. He became insensed. He made it a goal in his life to create a perfect race of blonde haired blue eyed people that would be totally superior to anything on the planet. To achieve that, in his mind, he would have to eliminate the races that he felt was inferior. He started with the Jews, because that was the race that he was most troubled with. It didn't stop there though. Had he been successful, he planned to exterminate every race that was not to his liking. He wanted to create a genetically perect race.

11-03-2002, 11:44 PM	#13
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Mein Kampf Hitler served only nine months of his five-year term. While in prison, he wrote the first volume of Mein Kampf. It was partly an autobiographical book (although filled with glorified inaccuracies, self-serving half-truths and outright revisionism) which also detailed his views on the future of the German people. There were several targets of the vicious diatribes in the book, such as democrats, Communists, and internationalists. But he reserved the brunt of his vituperation for the Jews, whom he portrayed as responsible for all of the problems and evils of the world, particularly democracy, Communism, and internationalism, as well as Germany's defeat in the War. Jews were the German nation's true enemy, he wrote. They had no culture of their own, he asserted, but perverted existing cultures such as Germany's with their parasitism. As such, they were not a race, but an anti-race. "[The Jews'] ultimate goal is the denaturalization, the promiscuous bastardization of other peoples, the lowering of the racial level of the highest peoples as well as the domination of his racial mishmash through the extirpation of the folkish intelligentsia and its replacement by the members of his own people," he wrote. On the contrary, the German people were of the highest racial purity and those destined to be the master race according to Hitler. To maintain that purity, it was necessary to avoid intermarriage with subhuman races such as Jews and Slavs. Germany could stop the Jews from conquering the world only by eliminating them. By doing so, Germany could also find Lebensraum, living space, without which the superior German culture would decay. This living space, Hitler continued, would come from conquering Russia (which was under the control of Jewish Marxists, he believed) and the Slavic countries. This empire would be launched after democracy was eliminated and a "FÅhrer" called upon to rebuild the German Reich. A second volume of Mein Kampf was published in 1927. It included a history of the Nazi party to that time and its program, as well as a primer on how to obtain and retain political power, how to use propaganda and terrorism, and how to build a political organization. While Mein Kampf was crudely written and filled with embarrassing tangents and ramblings, it struck a responsive chord among its target those Germans who believed it was their destiny to dominate the world. The book sold over five million copies by the start of World War II. Hitler's Rise to Power Once released from prison, Hitler decided to seize power constitutionally rather than by force of arms. Using demagogic oratory, Hitler spoke to scores of mass audiences, calling for the German people to resist the yoke of Jews and Communists, and to create a new empire which would rule the world for 1,000 years. Hitler's Nazi party captured 18% of the popular vote in the 1930 elections. In 1932, Hitler ran for President and won 30% of the vote, forcing the eventual victor, Paul von Hindenburg, into a runoff election. A political deal was made to make Hitler chancellor in exchange for his political support. He was appointed to that office in January 1933. Upon the death of Hindenburg in August 1934, Hitler was the consensus successor. With an improving economy, Hitler claimed credit and consolidated his position as a dictator, having succeeded in eliminating challenges from other political parties and government institutions. The German industrial machine was built up in preparation for war. By 1937, he was comfortable enough to put his master plan, as outlined in Mein Kampf, into effect. Calling his top military aides together at the "FÅhrer Conference" in November 1937, he outlined his plans for world domination. Those who objected to the plan were dismissed. Hitler Launches the War Hitler ordered the annexation of Austria and the Sudetenland in 1938. Hitler's army invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, sparking France and England to declare war on Germany. A Blitzkrieg (lightning war) of German tanks and infantry swept through most of Western Europe as nation after nation fell to the German war machine. In 1941, Hitler ignored a non-aggression pact he had signed with the Soviet Union in August 1939. Several early victories after the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, were reversed with crushing defeats at Moscow (December 1941) and Stalingrad (winter, 1942-43). The United States entered the war in December 1941. By 1944, the Allies invaded occupied Europe at Normandy Beach on the French coast, German cities were being destroyed by bombing, and Italy, Germany's major ally under the leadership of Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, had fallen. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

11-03-2002, 11:47 PM	#14
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Hitler's Last Days Several attempts were made on Hitler's life during the war, but none was successful. As the war appeared to be inevitably lost and his hand-picked lieutenants, seeing the futility, defied his orders, he killed himself on April 30, 1945. His long-term mistress and new bride, Eva Braun, joined him in suicide. By that time, one of his chief objectives was achieved with the annihilation of two-thirds of European Jewry. The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party What we now call a party manifesto. 1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples. 2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated. 3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population. 4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman. 5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens. 6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen. We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness. 7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich. 8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately. 9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties. 10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all. Therefore we demand: 11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. 12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think. Last edited by Aeryn : 11-03-2002 at 11:50 PM.

11-03-2002, 11:49 PM	#15
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts. 14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries. 15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions. 16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. 17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation[37] of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. 18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race. 19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law. 20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State. 21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young. 22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army. 23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand: (a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens. (b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language. (c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich. Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved. 24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle: COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD 25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states. The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives. If you would like to read an article, posted by the Times in 1938 go here: http://www.time.com/time/special/moy/1938.html __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

11-04-2002, 05:27 PM	#17
Draken Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, England Posts: 694	World War 2 was probably inevitable from the moment the Treaty of Versailles was penned. Maybe it would have been less unpleasant in Europe if someone other than Hitler had come to power, maybe not. Germany was seething for revenge just as France had been after the defeat of 1870. Add the growth of communism scaring the wealth creators and the Depression and you had a pretty volatile mix in Europe that the Fascists manipulated well. People who should have known better saw the Nazis as a useful tool in checking the Communists. Almost brings to mind the CIA backing the Ba'athist Party's overthrow of the communist regime in Iraq, allowing a young Saddam Hussein his first taste of power...be careful what you wish for in world politics, it might just come true! To me the most instructive thing about Hitler's rise is how he manipulated a democratic republic with a model constitution to become its elected leader. That's a lesson that's needs learning and guarding against. The Jews were useful scapegoats for defeat in 1918 and the depression of the 30s, but with nobody arguing the counter the persecution of them spiralled beyond anything ever seen before. And let's not get too Eurocentric about that war. For the Chinese, WW2 started in 1936 (I think? Maybe 1937) with the invasion by the Japanese - who quite independently to Hitler were pushing for their own Empire that carried it's own equally repulsive ideals of a master race with it. As to censorship, I can't say I blame the German lawmakers for wanting to make a rebirth of Nazism as difficult as possible. Whether it has made a difference or not is debatable. Driving something underground can give it a certain glamour. I can remember being outraged as a kid that Airfix had to modify it's decals on export kits for the West German market as swastikas were banned - that Stukas flew with swastikas on them is a matter of record, not a political statement! __________________ I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I?

11-04-2002, 07:04 PM	#18
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Interesting that this topic comes up, a week before the 11th November. __________________ We are not things.

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