language of Rohan

Finglas · 10-28-2002, 06:41 PM

I read somewhere in Unfinished Tales that orthanc has the same translation in the language of Rohan and in Anglo-Saxon. Is that just a coincidence or did Tolkien use A-S to represent Rohan's speech?

Ñólendil · 10-28-2002, 07:53 PM

"Orthanc" was a Sindarin construction, and it was indeed a coincedence that it has meaning in Old English. Old English is, however, the language Tolkien used to represent Rohirric. He did this because the Rohirrim spoke an archaic dialect of Westron, which is represented throughout the book in modern English, for obvious reasons.

zavron · 10-29-2002, 07:04 AM

WOW!!!

err... I didnt understand any of that sorry could you dumb it down a bit please

zavron

markedel · 10-29-2002, 03:42 PM

All westron in LOTR is translated into English. All languages derived from or related to westron is translated into languages related to English to reflect the original's relation to westron.

So:
Rohirric=Old English
Dale=Norselike
The various archaic english words in the shire reflect archaic westron still in use.
Even the names reflect this so all English names reflect the real westron names. I.e Merry in Westron=Kali Frodo=Maura etc.

cian · 10-31-2002, 12:15 PM

Quote:

"Alberto also asked whether _orthanc_, which in Sindarin means 'Mount Fang', and which is said to mean 'Cunning Mind' in "the language of the Mark of Old", is Old English. Yes, it is, and it does mean 'cunning mind'. However, the implication of Tolkien's statement is that the word has the same form and meaning in actual Rohirric (otherwise, there would be no pun apparent to the characters). A remarkable coincidence, indeed!" ~Carl Hostetter

Carl is a member of the Editorial Team currently publishing Tolkien's "new" linguistic papers.

markedel · 10-31-2002, 04:05 PM

I suppose that makes orthanc the only actual rhorric word in LOTR. Interesting.

10-28-2002, 06:41 PM	#1
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	language of Rohan I read somewhere in Unfinished Tales that orthanc has the same translation in the language of Rohan and in Anglo-Saxon. Is that just a coincidence or did Tolkien use A-S to represent Rohan's speech? __________________ If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

10-28-2002, 07:53 PM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	"Orthanc" was a Sindarin construction, and it was indeed a coincedence that it has meaning in Old English. Old English is, however, the language Tolkien used to represent Rohirric. He did this because the Rohirrim spoke an archaic dialect of Westron, which is represented throughout the book in modern English, for obvious reasons. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-29-2002, 03:42 PM	#4
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	All westron in LOTR is translated into English. All languages derived from or related to westron is translated into languages related to English to reflect the original's relation to westron. So: Rohirric=Old English Dale=Norselike The various archaic english words in the shire reflect archaic westron still in use. Even the names reflect this so all English names reflect the real westron names. I.e Merry in Westron=Kali Frodo=Maura etc. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

10-31-2002, 04:05 PM	#6
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I suppose that makes orthanc the only actual rhorric word in LOTR. Interesting. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

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10-29-2002, 07:04 AM	#3
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	WOW!!! err... I didnt understand any of that sorry could you dumb it down a bit please zavron