Cirdan´s beard

Kirinki54 · 10-05-2002, 03:09 PM

Why do you think Tolkien gave him one? Because of his maritime connections perhaps?

celeb-galad · 10-05-2002, 03:17 PM

I've no idea why he gave Cirdan the beard,but it sure is a nice one! So well groomed. And he wouldn't look as wise without it!

P.S.:Hi Kirinki!

Radagast The Brown · 10-05-2002, 03:28 PM

I think Cirdan didn't have a beard... after all he was an elf.

Welcome Celeb Galad!!

enjoy mooting!

Kirinki54 · 10-05-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I think Cirdan didn't have a beard... after all he was an elf.

Cirdan did not have a beard?! And perhaps the Istari did not wield staffs either? Hmmphh!!

Radagast The Brown · 10-05-2002, 03:43 PM

I really think he didn't have beard, like elrond didn't have one. And the istari did have staffs.

I didn't think ever Cirdan had a beard... what a thoght...

Kirinki54 · 10-05-2002, 03:56 PM

Well, the good Elf did have one. And I think Cirdan is the only one described to wear one. So: why him?

Lefty Scaevola · 10-05-2002, 04:10 PM

Just some personal choice of Cirdan's, I am not sure about what it is to indicate about him. Perhaps he was supoosed to be an inconoclast.

BeardofPants · 10-05-2002, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I really think he didn't have beard, like elrond didn't have one. And the istari did have staffs. I didn't think ever Cirdan had a beard... what a thoght...

Go and carefully re-read the end of LOTR again, my poor blind fool. It says quite clearly that Cirdan had a beard.

Anyway, perhaps it was because he didn't give a fig for elf culture.

He WAS quite old at that stage.

tharkun27 · 10-05-2002, 05:58 PM

A plain mustache might look a little to "Joe Dirt", while a goatee probably took to much effort to maintain.

nazgul prince · 10-05-2002, 07:33 PM

Cirdan did have a beard.He was one of the original elves who awoke at cuivienen.That is why he has the beard hes the oldest elf in middle earth.At first i didn't like the idea of an elf haveing a beard;but it makes sence that he does have one.if u gave elrond or celeborn another 9,000 years or so,they would be sporting one too.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 10-05-2002, 07:40 PM

When I first read that description it threw me off a bit...I mean, i had never imagined an elf with a beard, so it was a little odd, that, and I still don't imagine Cirdan as having one even though it says he does. Er.

Starr Polish · 10-05-2002, 08:06 PM

Same here EG. I just finished ROTK again and was kind of thrown aback by his description. Hmmph.

celeb-galad · 10-05-2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nazgul prince
He was one of the original elves who awoke at cuivienen.That is why he has the beard hes the oldest elf in middle earth.At first i didn't like the idea of an elf haveing a beard;but it makes sence that he does have one.if u gave elrond or celeborn another 9,000 years or so,they would be sporting one too.

The statement that Cirdan was one of the original elves is mere speculation.I thought so too at first,but there were 144 elves that awoke at Cuivienen and they were a male and a female elf - so there were 72 couples altogether.Cirdan has no spouse as far as we know so that's proof I'd say.
As for his beard,I don't think it's there because of his age, but some other characteristic of his "race" perhaps.That is just my guess though.

Eldanuumea · 10-05-2002, 11:30 PM

Cirdan was a bit of a loose cannon anyway, now, wasn' he? Living in his little seaside enclave Age after Age. Why couldn't he choose to grow a beard? He was a nonconforming elf in other ways......might as well violate their "dress code."

Radagast The Brown · 10-06-2002, 06:21 AM

Quote:

originaly posted by BoP
Go and carefully re-read the end of LOTR again, my poor blind fool. It says quite clearly that Cirdan had a beard.

Ok... it's probably because I didn't read in my first read the descriptions of the characters look. that's how I finished it in 4 days...

***Earniel*** · 10-06-2002, 01:44 PM

I completely forgot about the beard. It does sound a little un-elflike. But then again that might be the reason why he never married.

Celeb-galad, where did you get the information of 144 elves at Cuiviénen? I don't remember coming across it in the Silmarillion. Is it in HoME?

Radagast The Brown · 10-06-2002, 01:51 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Eärniel
I completely forgot about the beard. It does sound a little un-elflike. But then again that might be the reason why he never married.

good, I'm not the only one who forgot...

I almost sure it's not from the Sil. I read it lots of times.

Kirinki54 · 10-06-2002, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Just some personal choice of Cirdan's, I am not sure about what it is to indicate about him. Perhaps he was supoosed to be an inconoclast.

I would like to comment on your suggestion of Cirdan being an iconoclast, as well as Elda´s notion that he was a bit of a non-conformist. It is true that the life of Cirdan and his fellow branch of the Teleri was a bit peculiar, and the Falmari or Falathrim had a history and culture quite apart from the other Eldar. But that was the result of external circumstances IMO and nothing indicates they were revolting or distancing themselves by principle. Sources indicate that the highest wish of Cirdan was to follow the Eldar originally going across the Sea, but this was not the be fulfilled for Ages. One reason (found in an essay in PoME) could be that he obeyed a command directly from the Valar to stay behind, honing his skills in sailing and ship-building, awaiting the time when Earendil would need a ship to sail West. And look at how he stayed behind to run a transportation service year after year. So Cirdan conformed alright when it came to essentials.

Cirdan does not mean 'sailor' but 'shipwright'; still I wonder if Tolkien by any chance saw him an the proverbial bearded salty dog? Would that be a plausible reason? We might speculate why Cirdan of all Elves could or would grow a long beard but ultimately Tolkien gave it to him.

BeardofPants · 10-06-2002, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel
Celeb-galad, where did you get the information of 144 elves at Cuiviénen? I don't remember coming across it in the Silmarillion. Is it in HoME?

Hmm. That sounds like BoLT to me. I don't know if I'd put much stock into it if it is. But then maybe I'm muddling that up with the creation of men.

Kirinki54 · 10-06-2002, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Hmm. That sounds like BoLT to me. I don't know if I'd put much stock into it if it is. But then maybe I'm muddling that up with the creation of men.

The numbers of the first Elves is given in The War of the Jewels: Quendi and Eldar, which makes very interesting reading.

10-05-2002, 03:09 PM	#1
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	Cirdan´s beard Why do you think Tolkien gave him one? Because of his maritime connections perhaps? __________________ 'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'

10-05-2002, 03:28 PM	#3
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I think Cirdan didn't have a beard... after all he was an elf. Welcome Celeb Galad!! enjoy mooting! __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-05-2002, 03:43 PM	#5
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I really think he didn't have beard, like elrond didn't have one. And the istari did have staffs. I didn't think ever Cirdan had a beard... what a thoght... __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-05-2002, 03:56 PM	#6
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	Well, the good Elf did have one. And I think Cirdan is the only one described to wear one. So: why him? __________________ 'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'

10-05-2002, 07:40 PM	#11
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	When I first read that description it threw me off a bit...I mean, i had never imagined an elf with a beard, so it was a little odd, that, and I still don't imagine Cirdan as having one even though it says he does. Er. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

10-05-2002, 03:17 PM	#2
celeb-galad Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Olore Malle, the path of dreams Posts: 27	I've no idea why he gave Cirdan the beard,but it sure is a nice one! So well groomed. And he wouldn't look as wise without it! P.S.:Hi Kirinki!

10-05-2002, 04:10 PM	#7
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Just some personal choice of Cirdan's, I am not sure about what it is to indicate about him. Perhaps he was supoosed to be an inconoclast.

10-05-2002, 05:58 PM	#9
tharkun27 Sapling Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ny Posts: 14	A plain mustache might look a little to "Joe Dirt", while a goatee probably took to much effort to maintain.

10-05-2002, 07:33 PM	#10
nazgul prince Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 58	Cirdan did have a beard.He was one of the original elves who awoke at cuivienen.That is why he has the beard hes the oldest elf in middle earth.At first i didn't like the idea of an elf haveing a beard;but it makes sence that he does have one.if u gave elrond or celeborn another 9,000 years or so,they would be sporting one too.

10-05-2002, 08:06 PM	#12
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Same here EG. I just finished ROTK again and was kind of thrown aback by his description. Hmmph. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

10-05-2002, 11:30 PM	#14
Eldanuumea Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	Rebel with a cause Cirdan was a bit of a loose cannon anyway, now, wasn' he? Living in his little seaside enclave Age after Age. Why couldn't he choose to grow a beard? He was a nonconforming elf in other ways......might as well violate their "dress code." __________________ "Queen of Sweetness and Light!" - Mordomin

10-06-2002, 01:44 PM	#16
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I completely forgot about the beard. It does sound a little un-elflike. But then again that might be the reason why he never married. Celeb-galad, where did you get the information of 144 elves at Cuiviénen? I don't remember coming across it in the Silmarillion. Is it in HoME? __________________ We are not things.

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