Should UN diplomats pay parking tickets?

[jerseydevil]

This has been a big contention between New York and the United Nations for years. It has gotten so bad that a couple of days ago Mayor Bloomberg had said all diplomatic vehicles that owed fines were going to be towed. They had the tow trucks ready to go.
If you look at the bottom - Egypt is the worst offender and gets an average of 9 tickets a day and owes 1.9 million dollars in parking fines.

Diplomatic Dilemma
New York Irked Over Millions in Traffic Fines Owed by Diplomats

By Matt Donnelly
ABCNEWS.com

N E W Y O R K, Aug. 12 — Only in New York could parking tickets threaten foreign policy.

Thanks to an 11th-hour call from Secretary of State Colin Powell to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the city of New York did not impound the cars of the many foreign consulates that face outstanding parking fines from the city.

Bloomberg had threatened the international scofflaws with a midnight deadline before he would call in the tow trucks, but the State Department warned that Bloomberg's decision could have hefty repercussions for U.S. diplomats serving abroad.

Bloomberg's argument — passed like a torch between New York's mayors — is that the parking tickets collected by these foreign diplomats is a problem too large to ignore. By the Bloomberg's accounting, the city is owed $21.3 million in fines dating back to 1997. The State Department puts the figure closer to $10 million, saying that the city is including interest and registration violations that can't be levied against diplomats.

Reduce and Enforce

The agreement in principle reached between the State Department and the city would ease the parking crunch by reducing the number of consular licenses and getting federal assistance in collecting outstanding debts. Each mission or consulate would be granted between one and three spaces outside U.N. headquarters, but the city reserves the right to take spaces away if a country tallies too many tickets. All other diplomatic cars will have to fight for spaces just like everyone else in the city.

About 1,600 diplomats have State Department-issued licenses that grant them immunity from parking tickets and allow them only to be towed in case of emergency. The city's problem is with the 700 consular-licensed cars that don't have immunity and were nearly towed en masse last week. The deal brokered between the city and the State Department could bring the number of diplomatic decals closer to 500.

"It's an incentive for employees to obey traffic laws and pay parking tickets, or their boss will lose his privileges," said an official with the U.N.-U.S. mission, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "It's a good deal for New Yorkers."

Doing Their Best

For their part, the diplomats have tried to work with city. At the beginning of the year, Indonesia's ambassador announced that its mission and consulate employees would have to pay their own tickets, which previously were paid by the embassy or ignored. The embassy, headquarters to 29 diplomats with more than 50 cars, was granted four parking spots by the city. Employees at the Indonesian consulate said they are forced to double-park on their two spaces daily.

"You can't avoid that," said mission spokesman Tatang Razak. "We're trying to respect the city, but we hope the city understands our problem too."

The contention by diplomats is that their service and allegiance is to the United Nations, not New York, and that the benefits and honor of being home to the U.N. headquarters should outweigh the burden of playing host to thousands of diplomats and their chauffeurs.

Shame and Discipline

Never ones to cede their parking spots easily — let alone their sovereignty — New Yorkers have been riled by the diplomats' parking for decades. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., championed legislation last year that forces the federal government to withhold aid from countries that leave New York with five-digit debt. So far the law has not been enforced.

The United States forces its diplomats serving abroad to pay parking tickets to the city they're owed, said State Department spokesman Philip Reeker, and the same goes for foreign diplomats in the United States.

"It's the our belief that all diplomatic and consular officials in the United States must abide by our laws and pay all legitimate traffic and parking fines," Reeker said.

Indonesia owes the city about $940,000 on more than 8,000 tickets issued since 1997, ranking it fourth on a list the city published last week to shame the worst offender. At the top of the list: Egypt, which owes $1.9 million on more than 18,000 tickets; Kuwait, which owes $1.2 million on more than 11,000 tickets; and Nigeria, which also owes $1.2 million on 10,000 tickets.

For its debt, Egypt averaged nine tickets a day, everyday, for more than 5 ½ years. According to the U.S. Agency for International Development, Egypt has received more than $24 billion in aid from the United States since 1975.

Here are some localstories from the local NY News -
Australian Diplomats Reach Agreement With City to Pay For Outstanding Parking Tickets 6/29/01
New York Senators Urge Scofflaw Diplomats To Pay 8/7/02
State Department Objects To Mayor's Plan To Tow Diplomats 8/8/02

This is another occurence that angered a lot of people out here -

Loophole Preventing Diplomats From Being Arrested For DWI Angers Mayor, Others - 07/06/01

The mayor doesn't like it, neither do those who want to crack down on drunk drivers. But international law supercedes everything else and so the only people who like what's happening are the diplomats.

When somebody is pulled over for drunk driving, they're arrested, often their car is confiscated. But if you're a foreign diplomat it's a much different story. A new 26-page state department handbook reads, "Foreign representatives can carry out their duties effectively only if they are accorded a certain degree of insulation from standard law enforcement practices." The handbook goes on, "The taking of these DWI/DUI tests may not be compelled."

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, New York City: "You might not like that but that's the law and we have to respect that. There's no one more frustrated by that than me."

In Washington DC three years ago, a drunk driver from the Republic of Georgia killed a 16 year-old girl. Initially he was not to be prosecuted because of diplomatic immunity. According to the state department Friday, foreign diplomats on a first offense can have their driving privileges suspended for one year. On a second offense, a diplomat is asked to leave the country, but enforcement is rare and so advocates of tougher drunk driving laws are angry.

Dee Cornella, MADD of Long Island: "In the 1st place if you're drinking and driving you should pay the penalties of NY or of the United States. If you're a diplomat, if you kill somebody, they're no less alive if you're drinking and driving and you're a diplomat than it you weren't a diplomat."

On August 1st the mayor will begin a crackdown on diplomats who rack up parking tickets and don't pay them. The mayor wants to tow those violators, but on violations like a DUI or something worse, prosecution is tough.

Mayor Giuliani: "Now that doesn't mean we can't take action to protect the public. That's why we can seize an automobile, but we can't arrest them."

And for American Diplomats in foreign countries the same rules apply. They too are immune from prosecution there, except in rare cases.

Are diplomats above the law in their host countries? I feel that when our diplomats are in other countries they should abide by the laws of their host country. I don't think it is too much to ask for other countries to do the same. When American woman (diplomats, reporters, so forth) go to Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries - they wear a scarf and are "covered". Yet some of these same countries seem to be snubbing their noses at simple parking laws that we have here.

[cee2lee2]

I think they should pay their tickets and any other penalty for driving/traffic or other offenses. Diplomatic immunity should not be a license for flouting the law.

[Draken]

I'm afraid it goes beyond petty things like parking fines and shoplifting, too. Sorry for the length of this, but have posted an article written by a British barrister in 1999 - I'm pretty sure the situation hasn't changed since then.


Fifteen years ago, colleagues of PC Yvonne Fletcher were forced to protect her killer and his accomplices as they left the Libyan "People's Bureau" in St James Square en route to their heroes' welcome in Tripoli: the smoking gun used in the assassination was in their inviolable diplomatic baggage. This sickening spectacle was approved by the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, on the same principle she now claims should protect a mass murderer, Augusto Pinochet. It is the principle of "sovereign immunity", a law which assists so much crime - from torture and drug running to shoplifting and unlawful parking - that its reform has become a moral and practical imperative.
Diplomatic immunity - the law which allowed the Libyan killers to escape with a police escort - is an offshoot of the theory that government members and agents are legally untouchable abroad for anything done during their term of office, even if it's a crime of private lust (like rape or child abuse). The Pinochet case is important because the law lords found one small loophole: it does not protect an ex-official of a state from prosecution for crimes against humanity, such as genocide or torture, where sovereign immunity is overridden by an international convention.

But this still leaves diplomats free to murder and rape and run up unpaid parking fines, because they are protected by a convention agreed in Vienna in 1961. It was drafted by government lawyers under orders to puff diplomats up with as much power as possible, so they bestowed upon them not just immunity but impunity, covering every crime and misdemeanour committed during foreign service, whether or not in the course of duty.

This may have been expedient during the cold war, to protect diplomats from being framed (as well as blackmailed and honey-trapped). But it produced the result that foreign officials - and their spouses and children and chauffeurs - may fearlessly engage in serious crime, using their inviolable embassy premises and baggage for drug and gun-running and money laundering, or assist terrorists with whom their state is in political sympathy. The only thing that can happen is a declaration that they are persona non grata, followed by a police escort to the airport, unless their sending state waives immunity.

This law is obviously much wider than is necessary to protect the essential function of a diplomatic mission. The Libyan example (there was actually a firing range in the basement of the "People's Bureau") is a singular outrage, but at street level in London abuse of diplomatic immunity is reflected in the city's unpaid parking tickets and unprosecutable offences of shoplifting. Some years ago, Scotland Yard reckoned that 40% of these unrequited crimes are committed by the vehicles or wives of foreign diplomats. (The US, plagued by more diplomats than any other country, has recently adopted a novel approach to their unpaid parking fines: it tallies the penalties incurred by every embassy and deducts the total from that country's foreign aid. John Prescott and Clare Short, please take note).

The rationale for absolute immunity - that diplomatic missions keep open lines of communication between unfriendly states - is anachronistic in this age of email and video-conferencing. The fiction which sustains sovereignty - that state dignity would be lowered if its officials were prosecuted abroad - is absurd when states are headed by Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic. What sort of "respect" can accord impunity to representatives of the SLORC generals who supervise the heroin trail out of Myanmar, or of the president of Equatorial Guinea who last year murdered his uncle?

When PC Fletcher was murdered, the Thatcher government lacked the confidence to declare a restriction on diplomatic immunity, namely that foreign officials would be put on trial if there was overwhelming evidence of their involvement in serious crime. Five years later, drug-running by diplomats became so serious that the UK at last threatened to sniff - and possibly to scan - inviolable baggage (although diplomats would not be prosecuted). The time has now come for the UK to state that foreign states will henceforth be expected to waive immunity for any ambassadorial official or family member accused of serious crime.

Robin Cook should begin by insisting on surrender by Libya of those diplomats suspected of involvement in the Yvonne Fletcher murder. It is not satisfactory merely for Libya to accept "general responsibility" for that outrage: the judgement at Nuremberg lays down that crimes are committed by individuals, not by states. When they are committed by diplomats with impunity, the notion of "restoring diplomatic relations" is oxymoronic.

[jerseydevil]

I'm glad our country tallies the total for parking fines and stuff and reduces the foreign aid. I didn't know we did this. We need to do something similar for the $21+ million that is owed in parking tickets in NYC. Although - really it all gets buried in accounting anyway. It would be nice if countries got an itemized list of our aid and expenses that goes to their countries. Then they can see that even though they may have been "given" $7 million in aid - it was reduced by $1 million dollars because of parking tickets.

[cee2lee2]

I didn't know about the US deducting the amount of fines from foreign aid either. It's a good practice. I also agree with the writer of the article that Draken posted. This type of diplomatic immunity is outdated and not needed. Diplomacy should not be an excuse/cover for pillage and crimes.

[Spock]

I support the idea of deducting the fines from foreign aid and then sending it to NYC. Great thought.

I also think we should kick the UN out of the US and let it go to Europe where "they all can get along". Let's see how tolerant they'll be.

Hmmmm, nice water front property for sale?

[Sween]

is there adequae parking cos you know in town i just park on the road cos theres fair any parlking spaces and sumtime sim in a hirry and it pisses you off if theres not where to p[ark maybe they should build a multi story.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sween
is there adequae parking cos you know in town i just park on the road cos theres fair any parlking spaces and sumtime sim in a hirry and it pisses you off if theres not where to p[ark maybe they should build a multi story.

I do believe that a city that can have TWO 110 story buildings - can manage to build multi-story parking garages. - According to severeal other threads Sween - you're drunk at this time. -- so to answer your question - yes New York City has plenty of multi-story parking garages. I've never driven though in NY- I just take the train.

[Sween]

Build anoter poor sods dont want to park with the commonerrs yes i am drunk

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Spock
I support the idea of deducting the fines from foreign aid and then sending it to NYC. Great thought.

I also think we should kick the UN out of the US and let it go to Europe where "they all can get along". Let's see how tolerant they'll be.

Hmmmm, nice water front property for sale?

I agree with Spock. The building is ugly anyway - it'd have to be torn down. I'm glad they built the thing on the East River and not on the Hudson - New Jersey doesn't have to look at it. I've been there once - a long time ago. It's never on my list of tourists sites when people come out to visit and we go into NY.

[jerseydevil]

Here's the settlement that was announced yesterday on unpaid parking tickets by diplomats in New York

Consular parking scofflaws put on notice in N.Y.:
Egypt leads international list of parking deadbeats

NEW YORK (AP) -- The State Department will revoke the license plates of consular parking scofflaws in an agreement that could end a years-long international dispute over unpaid tickets in the city.

The agreement announced Thursday between the State Department and Mayor Michael Bloomberg's office also cuts the number of diplomatic parking spots by about 75 percent.

"We think it will finally solve a problem that has perplexed this city for a long time," Bloomberg said at a City Hall press conference.

The city had grown progressively angrier over the parking habits of consular and diplomatic officials for a host of nations. The city claimed officials regularly ignored parking rules as they ran up $21.3 million in outstanding fines.

Diplomatic immunity extends to parking tickets but does not cover consular officials working in the city's 289 missions and consulates.

Former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani threatened to tow scofflaw diplomatic vehicles and auction them. Secretary of State Colin Powell intervened earlier this month, a day before Bloomberg had vowed to begin towing illegally parked consular vehicles.

Under the agreement, consular cars that have not paid 60 percent of their outstanding tickets by September 1 will have their special plates revoked.

After November 1, the State Department will revoke the license plates of consular cars or refuse to renew the registrations of diplomatic vehicles when three or more parking tickets issued are not paid within 100 days. If 40 or more tickets go unpaid, nations will lose their parking spaces.

Those spaces reserved for consulates and missions will dwindle from 2,600 to just 530 by November.

Bloomberg said the city will allow nations to settle their debts if they pay between 60 percent and 75 percent of their fines by the end of the year.

Of the $21.3 million the city says it is owed, Egypt leads the list, with $1.63 million from 15,924 tickets accumulated between 1997 and 2000. Nigeria, Kuwait, Indonesia, Russia, Brazil and Morocco all owe more than $500,000.

The phone rang unanswered Thursday at the Egyptian consulate. The Nigerian consulate declined comment.

In a statement, State Department spokesman Philip Reeker said Powell is pleased with the settlement.

"The Department of State believes all diplomats should pay for all legitimate parking violations," Reeker said. "As this parking program illustrates, we recognize the importance of following laws that govern diplomats in our country."

This is interesting - because this comes from New York's ABC station and has some additional information that isn't included in CNN's report at all. On the website they do have the video of the news item.

City Announces Parking Deal With Diplomats

(New York-WABC, August 22, 2002) — Thursday brought a victory for diplomacy over confrontation in New York City. It came in the form of a compromise which was hammered out between City Hall and the US State Department over the delicate issue of diplomatic parking tickets and parking permits. At stake is millions of dollars, and several important international relationships.

We've heard so much over the years about thousands of unpaid parking tickets racked up by diplomatic scofflaws and whether City Hall would eventually tow the vehicles belonging to the violators. Well on Thursday, a State Department official told Eyewitness News that a lot of these fines are simply bogus, and Mayor Michael Bloomberg said pretty much agreed.

The consulates of the three countries accused of the worst parking fine records all just happen to be in a half-block area along East 44th Street. According to the city, Egypt owes the most in fines, about $2 million, followed by Kuwait and then Nigeria. But are all the fines legitimate, or was it a case of overly-aggressive policing?

We talked with two diplomats, one from the Indonesia, the other from the Philippines, and both claim they've been targeted by parking police.

Dave Evans, Eyewitness News: "Two or three tickets in 10 minutes?"
Philippine Diplomat: "Yeah. It's impossible. This it's worse."
Evans: "Do you think that's fair?"
Philippines Diplomat: "It's not fair."

Indonesian Diplomat: "See one guy, one police stop, give a ticket, and then another one come along, less than five minutes and wrote another, again."

At City Hall Thursday, the mayor announced the agreement made after the long fight over diplomatic parking and whether diplomats are flouting local laws. After claiming $21 million in overdue fines, Mayor Bloomberg himself admitted that a lot of the fines are not legitimate.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, New York City (R): "There are an awful lot of those tickets that our lawyers say we would never be able to collect on, even if we could take the people to court. If you've gotten five tickets in a half-hour you don't have five tickets to pay. And there are many cases like that."

The terms of the agreement include a lower number of diplomatic parking permits, from 2,600 to only 530. And after November first, if tickets are racked up and not paid, consular tags will be physically removed by the State Department. Now, instead of claiming $21 million in fines due, City Hall expects only $2 or $3 million. And everyone claims to be happy about the deal.

Patrick Kennedy, US Mission To The UN Ambassador: "So I see no reason for any mission or consulate under this program to report back to their capitol that they're not getting a full and fair deal."

The city admits because of international law it is hard to tow or seize a tag off a diplomat's car. But if they keep breaking parking rules and they refuse to pay their fines, in the future the State Department will simply yank parking permits.

[cee2lee2]

It sounds like a decent compromise, but NYC should have been more forthcoming about all of the invalid tickets. Guess that's why they're so willing to accept a percentage of what they originally said was owed.