Kinship relation between Arwen and Arargorn

Archbob the Elder · 07-29-2002, 09:13 AM

I know Arargorn is about 50 relations removed but think abou the Kinship. Elros and Elrond were brothers, although one chose to be an elf and one chose to be human. Now Arwen is the daughter of Elrond. Arargorn is a descendant of Elendil which is a descendant of elros. So on Elronds side its only 2 generations apart while on elro's side it more like 60.

Sicirus · 07-29-2002, 10:31 AM

Yes as far as I have read that is true. Aragorn was related to Elros by many generations. Which means he should be calling Elrond Uncle.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 07-29-2002, 12:07 PM

Moving to the Middle-earth forum.

Snowdog · 07-29-2002, 05:01 PM

There is quite the number of generations removed though. For all the wives in the line from Elros to Arathorn II added their own specific and special genes though it was a continious line fron Erendil to Aragorn father to son.

Archbob the Elder · 07-30-2002, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sicirus
Yes as far as I have read that is true. Aragorn was related to Elros by many generations. Which means he should be calling Elrond Uncle.

It should be his great-great granduncle or something actually.

Sicirus · 07-30-2002, 11:26 AM

True.
That would get on Elronds nerves too. Hi Great great *100 granduncle.

They have a very big familly. But unfortunatly most of them are dead.

Eldanuumea · 08-02-2002, 08:06 AM

The union of Arwen and Aragorn is a re-uniting of the sundered lines of Elros and Elrond.

Archbob the Elder · 08-02-2002, 08:11 AM

So would their Children be Elven by essense?

Eldanuumea · 08-02-2002, 08:15 AM

Their children would contain elven blood and also a bit of MAIA (mELIAN), but I perceive them as basically human.

Sween · 08-02-2002, 11:34 AM

so there kids would be something special? I dunno i knew they inbread in middle earth

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 08-03-2002, 02:17 AM

They're much too far removed from eachother on the family tree for the union to be called an inbreeding, I think. You'll never find a lawful or normal marriage in Tolkien's works between people closer than second-cousins. That was the cut-off. Galadriel and Celeborn (Arwen's grand-parents, incidentally) were second cousins, you know. *enters rambling mode* For Galadriel's mother was EÃ¤rwen and EÃ¤rwen's father was Olwe. Celeborn's father was Galadhon and Galadhon's father was Elmo (an obsure character). Elmo and Olwe were brothers.

Arwen and Elessar on the other hand are divided by all the Kings of NÃºmenor, Gondor and Arnor and all the Chieftains of the DÃºnedain over a period of some (I guess) six thousand years.

ArwenEvenstar · 08-03-2002, 04:47 PM

I was wondering that myself...

Sicirus · 08-04-2002, 12:50 AM

Interesting. So Galadriel and Celeborn are actually related by blood. Tolkien has an interesting way of setting up family trees. I mean that in a good way of course.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 08-04-2002, 02:10 AM

O yes, his genealogies are fascinating. Elrond is related to Celeborn by blood, too, which is interesting. Elrond's mother was Elwing, her mother was Nimloth and Nimloth was Celeborn's niece. So Celeborn was Elrond's great-grand-uncle. So it follows that Celeborn's daughter CelebrÃ*an was Elrond's grandmother Nimloth's first-cousin. Thus, CelebrÃ*an was Elrond's third-cousin twice removed on that side of the family.

Which means, oddly enough, that Arwen was her father's third cousin once removed and her own fifth cousin twice removed. How'd you like yourself for a cousin?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 08-04-2002, 11:22 AM

Hey, I know families like that in real life.

Sicirus · 08-04-2002, 11:28 AM

Thats confusing.

But interesting.

Starr Polish · 08-04-2002, 11:33 AM

That's really confusing, but incredibly interesting.

Our biology teacher showed us a genealogy/genetic tree that makes you your own grandpa, but I forgot how it went....

Sicirus · 08-04-2002, 11:38 AM

I love genetics. It was my favorit study. The hobbit family tree is pretty interesting as well and confusing.
I love the elves family trees though.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 08-04-2002, 11:58 AM

The Elven geneology gets very confusing because tolkien changed his mind about guys like Orodreth, and Gil-galad.

Palanturiel · 08-04-2002, 09:45 PM

One way to get some answers on all these geneology questions is to read tolkiens unfinished tales. some of the stories just fill in the holes. i just read it right after silm. i highly recommend it to get the details.

07-29-2002, 09:13 AM	#1
Archbob the Elder Enting Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 77	Kinship relation between Arwen and Arargorn I know Arargorn is about 50 relations removed but think abou the Kinship. Elros and Elrond were brothers, although one chose to be an elf and one chose to be human. Now Arwen is the daughter of Elrond. Arargorn is a descendant of Elendil which is a descendant of elros. So on Elronds side its only 2 generations apart while on elro's side it more like 60. __________________ Get Free Stuff

07-29-2002, 10:31 AM	#2
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Yes as far as I have read that is true. Aragorn was related to Elros by many generations. Which means he should be calling Elrond Uncle. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

07-29-2002, 05:01 PM	#4
Snowdog DÃºnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	There is quite the number of generations removed though. For all the wives in the line from Elros to Arathorn II added their own specific and special genes though it was a continious line fron Erendil to Aragorn father to son. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

07-30-2002, 11:26 AM	#6
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	True. That would get on Elronds nerves too. Hi Great great *100 granduncle. They have a very big familly. But unfortunatly most of them are dead. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-02-2002, 08:06 AM	#7
Eldanuumea Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	The union of Arwen and Aragorn is a re-uniting of the sundered lines of Elros and Elrond. __________________ "Queen of Sweetness and Light!" - Mordomin

07-29-2002, 12:07 PM	#3
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Moving to the Middle-earth forum.

08-02-2002, 08:11 AM	#8
Archbob the Elder Enting Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 77	So would their Children be Elven by essense? __________________ Get Free Stuff

08-02-2002, 08:15 AM	#9
Eldanuumea Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	Their children would contain elven blood and also a bit of MAIA (mELIAN), but I perceive them as basically human. __________________ "Queen of Sweetness and Light!" - Mordomin

08-02-2002, 11:34 AM	#10
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	so there kids would be something special? I dunno i knew they inbread in middle earth __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

08-03-2002, 02:17 AM	#11
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	They're much too far removed from eachother on the family tree for the union to be called an inbreeding, I think. You'll never find a lawful or normal marriage in Tolkien's works between people closer than second-cousins. That was the cut-off. Galadriel and Celeborn (Arwen's grand-parents, incidentally) were second cousins, you know. enters rambling mode For Galadriel's mother was EÃ¤rwen and EÃ¤rwen's father was Olwe. Celeborn's father was Galadhon and Galadhon's father was Elmo (an obsure character). Elmo and Olwe were brothers. Arwen and Elessar on the other hand are divided by all the Kings of NÃºmenor, Gondor and Arnor and all the Chieftains of the DÃºnedain over a period of some (I guess) six thousand years. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ã‘Ã³lendil : 08-03-2002 at 02:21 AM.

08-03-2002, 04:47 PM	#12
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	blah...blah...blah... and finally blah;) I was wondering that myself... __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

08-04-2002, 12:50 AM	#13
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Interesting. So Galadriel and Celeborn are actually related by blood. Tolkien has an interesting way of setting up family trees. I mean that in a good way of course. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-04-2002, 02:10 AM	#14
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	O yes, his genealogies are fascinating. Elrond is related to Celeborn by blood, too, which is interesting. Elrond's mother was Elwing, her mother was Nimloth and Nimloth was Celeborn's niece. So Celeborn was Elrond's great-grand-uncle. So it follows that Celeborn's daughter CelebrÃan was Elrond's grandmother Nimloth's first-cousin. Thus, CelebrÃan was Elrond's third-cousin twice removed on that side of the family. Which means, oddly enough, that Arwen was her father's third cousin once removed and her own fifth cousin twice removed. How'd you like yourself for a cousin? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ã‘Ã³lendil : 08-04-2002 at 02:16 AM.

08-04-2002, 11:22 AM	#15
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Hey, I know families like that in real life.

08-04-2002, 11:28 AM	#16
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Thats confusing. But interesting. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-04-2002, 11:33 AM	#17
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	That's really confusing, but incredibly interesting. Our biology teacher showed us a genealogy/genetic tree that makes you your own grandpa, but I forgot how it went.... __________________ â€œThe whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.â€ â€“Bertrand Russell

08-04-2002, 11:38 AM	#18
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	I love genetics. It was my favorit study. The hobbit family tree is pretty interesting as well and confusing. I love the elves family trees though. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-04-2002, 11:58 AM	#19
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	The Elven geneology gets very confusing because tolkien changed his mind about guys like Orodreth, and Gil-galad.

08-04-2002, 09:45 PM	#20
Palanturiel Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow... Posts: 24	One way to get some answers on all these geneology questions is to read tolkiens unfinished tales. some of the stories just fill in the holes. i just read it right after silm. i highly recommend it to get the details. __________________ ~Palanturiel Sindarin Elf of Northern Mirkwood ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ History became legend... Legend became myth... And some things that should not have been forgotten... were lost... Thus the third age of middle-earth began. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ YODA LIVES! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Remember, people! We are all unique! Just like everybody else!