Quenya Question

Rána Eressëa · 06-01-2002, 08:43 PM

How would you combine the words "tale of tears" in Quenya?

Would it be Nyárëo Nië or just Nyárëonië?

Starr Polish · 06-01-2002, 09:26 PM

I would say Nyárëonië, but I'm no expert.

Starr Polish · 06-01-2002, 10:27 PM

My reasoning would have to be because of what it said in the Quenya lessons I have. Basically along the lines of "English speakers like to express themselves with a long string of short words, whereas in Quenya, one large word is used to get the point across". that's not a direct quote.

Ñólendil · 06-02-2002, 02:56 AM

Why do you ask? What is the Tale of Tears?

Rána Eressëa · 06-02-2002, 11:37 PM

'Tis the name of something. Any ways, can't give something a name unless it's proper. I think you combine all the words together, but I wasn't sure.

cian · 06-04-2002, 11:58 PM

I think the title is best written without compounding here. I would offer:

Quenta Nieron

Quenta "account, tale, story"
nië "tear" nier "tears" + plural genitive inflexion nieron "of tears"

Compare tië pl. tier -- and expert Quenyaist Ales Bican offers pl. nier as well

-- and the famed Quenta Silmarillion of course (Silmarillë > Silmarilli-on).

Starr Polish · 06-05-2002, 01:13 AM

Doesn't Silmarillion just mean "Of the Silmarills"?

Laurelyn · 06-05-2002, 07:02 AM

Yes, Starr polish, just "silmarillion" means "of the silmarils".

cian · 06-05-2002, 12:24 PM

Right, Quenta Silmarillion "Story, tale ... of the Silmarils"

Note that the genitive pl. inflexion does not occur on quenta in the example (nor if one chose nyáre), but on Silmarilli (an i plural), as on my nieron (and r plural)

Ñólendil · 06-06-2002, 07:55 PM

Quote:

'Tis the name of something.

Obviously. Was that some failed attempt at being mysterious?

Rána Eressëa · 06-09-2002, 11:16 PM

I really didn't see why it mattered what it was for.

Ñólendil · 06-12-2002, 02:46 PM

There's nothing wrong with keeping it to yourself, certainly.

Rána Eressëa · 06-14-2002, 08:19 AM

I don't feel like starting another thread, so does anyone know a Silvan name along the lines of "dark-haired maiden" or "dark-haired forest dweller" (feminine, of course)?

Agburanar · 06-14-2002, 09:30 AM

I'd call her Jane. Just a thought...

Ñólendil · 06-14-2002, 05:52 PM

We don't have that much Silvan vocabulary.

There is a Nandorin word list on Ardalambion, if you want to check it out.

If it's for a character in a story, a Wood-elf in Mirkwood, there's nothing wrong with giving him a Grey-elven name. The Nandorin/Avarin Wood-elves adopted Sindarin. I believe Morwen is "Dark maiden" in Sindarin, it was the name of Túrin's mother if you didn't know.

cian · 06-15-2002, 11:46 AM

And if you go with Sindarin it might be helpful to note that Tolkien once used Glorfinniel for "Goldilocks".

Rána Eressëa · 06-16-2002, 04:52 PM

She's a dark-haired Green Elf of the Blue Mountains.

Ñólendil · 06-16-2002, 08:37 PM

Hmm. What Age does she live in? I guess in any Age she wouldn't have a Grey-elven name.

Maybe you can send an e-mail to Helgeh Fauskanger (the Ardalambion guy). He's a busy man, but he's answered all my questions in the past and has been very helpful. Click here.

I go to Michael Martinez with a historical question, but I go to Helgeh Fauskanger with a linguistic one.

cian · 06-17-2002, 12:48 PM

David Salo did some work on Silvan in "Other Hands", which I believe is out of print now (?). Michael Martinez _might_ own a copy (I think he quoted from it once on his site? but my memory isn't sure 'bout that). In any case, if so, we wantssss a copy of hiz copy

If it were me, I wouldn't try to "fit" too much more than "dark-tress" into a name.

06-01-2002, 08:43 PM	#1
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Quenya Question How would you combine the words "tale of tears" in Quenya? Would it be Nyárëo Nië or just Nyárëonië? Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 06-01-2002 at 08:44 PM.

06-01-2002, 09:26 PM	#2
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I would say Nyárëonië, but I'm no expert. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

06-01-2002, 10:27 PM	#3
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	My reasoning would have to be because of what it said in the Quenya lessons I have. Basically along the lines of "English speakers like to express themselves with a long string of short words, whereas in Quenya, one large word is used to get the point across". that's not a direct quote. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

06-02-2002, 02:56 AM	#4
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Why do you ask? What is the Tale of Tears? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

06-05-2002, 01:13 AM	#7
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Doesn't Silmarillion just mean "Of the Silmarills"? __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

06-02-2002, 11:37 PM	#5
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	'Tis the name of something. Any ways, can't give something a name unless it's proper. I think you combine all the words together, but I wasn't sure.

06-04-2002, 11:58 PM	#6
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	I think the title is best written without compounding here. I would offer: Quenta Nieron Quenta "account, tale, story" nië "tear" nier "tears" + plural genitive inflexion nieron "of tears" Compare tië pl. tier -- and expert Quenyaist Ales Bican offers pl. nier as well -- and the famed Quenta Silmarillion of course (Silmarillë > Silmarilli-on).

06-05-2002, 07:02 AM	#8
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Yes, Starr polish, just "silmarillion" means "of the silmarils". __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

06-05-2002, 12:24 PM	#9
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	Right, Quenta Silmarillion "Story, tale ... of the Silmarils" Note that the genitive pl. inflexion does not occur on quenta in the example (nor if one chose nyáre), but on Silmarilli (an i plural), as on my nieron (and r plural)

06-09-2002, 11:16 PM	#11
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I really didn't see why it mattered what it was for.

06-12-2002, 02:46 PM	#12
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	There's nothing wrong with keeping it to yourself, certainly. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

06-14-2002, 08:19 AM	#13
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I don't feel like starting another thread, so does anyone know a Silvan name along the lines of "dark-haired maiden" or "dark-haired forest dweller" (feminine, of course)?

06-14-2002, 09:30 AM	#14
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	I'd call her Jane. Just a thought... __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

06-14-2002, 05:52 PM	#15
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	We don't have that much Silvan vocabulary. There is a Nandorin word list on Ardalambion, if you want to check it out. If it's for a character in a story, a Wood-elf in Mirkwood, there's nothing wrong with giving him a Grey-elven name. The Nandorin/Avarin Wood-elves adopted Sindarin. I believe Morwen is "Dark maiden" in Sindarin, it was the name of Túrin's mother if you didn't know. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

06-15-2002, 11:46 AM	#16
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	And if you go with Sindarin it might be helpful to note that Tolkien once used Glorfinniel for "Goldilocks".

06-16-2002, 04:52 PM	#17
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	She's a dark-haired Green Elf of the Blue Mountains.

06-16-2002, 08:37 PM	#18
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Hmm. What Age does she live in? I guess in any Age she wouldn't have a Grey-elven name. Maybe you can send an e-mail to Helgeh Fauskanger (the Ardalambion guy). He's a busy man, but he's answered all my questions in the past and has been very helpful. Click here. I go to Michael Martinez with a historical question, but I go to Helgeh Fauskanger with a linguistic one. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 06-16-2002 at 08:39 PM.

06-17-2002, 12:48 PM	#19
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	David Salo did some work on Silvan in "Other Hands", which I believe is out of print now (?). Michael Martinez _might_ own a copy (I think he quoted from it once on his site? but my memory isn't sure 'bout that). In any case, if so, we wantssss a copy of hiz copy If it were me, I wouldn't try to "fit" too much more than "dark-tress" into a name.

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