Unity and Diversity

[crickhollow]

most of the Americans have probably read about the deaf couple that recently delved into the genetic engineering mess because they wanted a deaf baby. They viewed their deafness as a positive thing, and they wanted their child to have the same experience.

I DON'T want this thread to be about genetic engineering.
I DON'T want the discussion to center around the fact that the couple were lesbians.

To refuse to be limited by a handicap is an admirable thing. To place such a hardship on someone who does not have the capacity to accept or refuse it is cruel. If these women had had a child that could hear, he would have still had a place in the deaf community because of his mothers. But they have summarily cut him off from the hearing world.

These women view deafness as an IDENTITY. imo, it isn't an identity, but PART of an identity. So my dilemma (and, subsequently my question for you) is whether or not our culture prizes IDENTITY too highly.

and to follow that up (whether you answered yes or no), how do unity and diversity fit together?

[jerseydevil]

To me deafness is no different than paralysis. It's a medical condition. If someone is deaf or paralyzed and they don't want to have their condition "fixed" that's fine- it's their choice. But how many people would support a doctor purposely creating a paralyzed baby because it's parents are paralyzed - or a baby that has down syndrome because it's parents have down syndrome. All of these things may be part of the parents identity - but to force that life style on a child is wrong.

By the way - it sounds a lot like Gataca - except in the other direction.

[Andúril]

I can't find any info on this case. Were these women born deaf?

[BeardofPants]

As a deaf person, myself (67% loss), I can't say that I've noticed too much of a negative impact upon my life. HOWEVER, I certainly wouldn't willingly push it onto someone, if I could choose. Weird.

[Andúril]

When thinking of the condition of deafness, I immediately understand it as a disability - in the medical sense. I don't think this can really be argued: Is someone that suffers from deafness in a position of increased or decreased general ability? The answer is obvious. Just as a blind person lacks the ability to see, or a mute person lacks the ability to communicate verbally, the person is in the position of hindered physical capability.

We must ask: is this a favourable position?

Well, that depends on the way you view it. One may believe that the position of increased physical capability is "better" than one of lesser ability, but this takes into account only the scenarios involving potential physical actions. While I would assert that the vast majority of people hold this view as correct, one must not ignore other implications. And this, I believe, is one (if not the chief) motive or factor behind the couple's actions.

If I were to speculate, I would say that the couple has taken what is viewed as a physical disability, and turned it into a social advantage. I am leaning toward the thought that their position is a result of a psychological attempt at finding some sort of advantageous position, from the midst of a physically disadvantageous one. One would still have to speculate as to the origin of this action, but I am sure that most of you would be aware of the situation whereby someone, for example, who suffers from a mental difficiency, would be told that they are "not stupid, but different" or "special". It is this "specialness" that has been given a "high" or "more important" place as an identifying indicator. Whatever the purpose of this action, I would take it as a tool for the provision of comfort, emotionally speaking.

I have no information regarding the matter of the duration of the deafness, but I think this an important issue. I would assume that the individuals have experienced deafness either from birth, or from childhood. At least far enough into their pasts that the memory of sound, or the thought of the prior capability of hearing, has totally left them. We must wonder if this has played a role in the viewpoint that they hold.

I have lost mine train of thought completely...

[BeardofPants]

To a certain extent that's probably true. Having never had perfect hearing myself, I am not completely sure what I am missing out on (and if I REALLY want to screw myself over, I ponder on whether or not the sounds I DO perceive are actually how they sound and not just a mechanical version...)

In terms of being brought up as "special" and being entitled to certain things that other "normal" people aren't, yeah, I guess that's true. BUT, I've also had to put up with discrimination, as well as the knowledge that whatever I choose to do with my life, I have to work at it TEN times harder than a "normal" person, to prove my worth.

Is the trade off worth it? For me: no. I would never willingly wish my deafness upon any child of mine. That is partly why I'm choosing not to have kids (apart from the fact that I hate 'em.) Can I fathom why anyone else would chose to give their child a life of silence? No. However, (there's always one!) having said that, there ARE worse things to be struck down with. I have no pain from my particular disability, and it hasn't interfered too much with my life, because I haven't let it. I don't take what's entitled to me (ie grants, etc), because I feel there are people who need the money, etc more than I do. Furthermore, I also feel that in many ways, I get more enjoyment out of listening to music, and watching people talk (I was taught to lip read, although I no longer can do so... dammit! Could come in handy...). Probably sounds weird, huh? Well: bite me.

[jerseydevil]

I don't know if there is this movement in other countries - but in the US - there are some deaf people that are speaking out against the micro hearing implant (not sure what it's true name is). They claim that hearing people are trying to destroy the deaf culture. They equate science trying to cure deafness as someone discovering an isolated tribe in the Amazon and destroying their culture. They actually organize against the research - and say that it's bigotry that we are doing research to cure deafness. If they choose to be deaf - then that's their decision - but don't force your views on another person. It's not like the doctors are rounding up all deaf people and forcing them to have the operation against their will.

Also - you brought up a good point about disability benefits. If a person purposely has a child that has a diability (through genetic engineering, etc) - do they deserve to get benefits? If they don't consider it to be a disabilty - then I don't think they should get the benefits. The child of course didn't choose to be deaf - so maybe the parents should give up the benefits.

[Andúril]

It is amazing to think that someone can take the stance that a physical disability is a "good" thing. IMO the major reason for these people wanting to elevate or amplify their proposed "culture", is because they are stuck with it. They say there is a deaf culture - well there is also an undeaf culture, if we are to label the status of physical capability as a "culture" at all.

What about other disabilities? Mental inefficiencies? Paraplegics? It is not a separate culture that they are born into; it is merely an adaption to the existing (closest geographical) culture, and the environment as an external influence.

It is clear that they have transformed a "bad" thing (disability) into a "good" thing (deaf pride), for, at least, emotional gain.

[crickhollow]

Anduril and BoP: If you're still looking for info, the names of the parents are Sharon Duchesneau and Candace McCullough. The magazine I read the article in quoted them as saying, "A hearing baby would be a blessing," Ms. Duchesneau said; "a deaf baby would be a special blessing."

and, "deaf children make a society more diverse, and diversity makes society more humane. Plenty of individuals and groups receive public support, and if you start saying which costs are legitimate and which aren't, well, it's a slippery slope."

Now, I don't want to knock the concept of diversity or anything, but that's a bit extreme.

[Andúril]

deaf children make a society more diverse, and diversity makes society more humane.

Humane:

< Characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion
< Marked by an emphasis on humanistic values and concerns
< Humane, compassionate, humanitarian, merciful: These adjectives mean marked or motivated by concern with the alleviation of suffering
< Having the feelings and inclinations creditable to man; having a disposition to treat other human beings or animals with kindness; kind; benevolent.
< Humanizing; exalting; tending to refine.

The above definitions are given as the goal or directional purpose of this attempt at diversity. And diversity, if we are to maintain a certain level of semantical accuracy, is:

< The fact or quality of being diverse; difference
< Variety or multiformity
< A state of difference; dissimilitude; unlikeness
< Multiplicity of difference; multiformity; variety

Firstly, it is true that the occurence of deaf children in society does promote "a state of difference" or "unlikeness" in such a society. This is purely a medical differentiation, as in the assertion that those suffering from Down Syndrome, or blindness, introduces or maintains the same type of medical difference. Therefore, I would agree in a sense that the first assertion in the quote has merrit.

However, according to these definitions of diversity, there is no mention, nor implication, of any ethical stance, which is essentially what the term humane entails. There is no subject of benevolence or non-benevolence involved in the quantitative characterisation of "diversity".

Thus I must conclude that statement quoted, which I would assume is the basis of their actions, is non sequitur and renders the logical basis of the actions derived therefrom as unsound and unsupported.

[afro-elf]

here is a link that may interest you

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/de..._wanna_be.html

[BeardofPants]

I was going to post that!

[afro-elf]

great minds think alike