Lost Tales and Silmarillion

[Elfhelm]

I must say that, despite all the interruptions of Christopher's comments, The Book of Lost Tales reads more easily than The Silmarillion. And I wish JRRT had used the same method in the final version. I find the links entertaining, and the voices of te story-tellers, and the way they fill in little details that would be redundant if it weren't for the fact that it's different story-tellers each time. Of course, the names have changed, and Beren's race, and so much else over the 30 to 40 years between the versions. But it might have been nice to do the new version that way, say, with Bilbo at Rivendell instead of Eriol at Tol Eressëa.

In fact, when Frodo finds Bilbo nodding in the story-telling room, it just makes me think that JRRT had that going on in some way in his mind.

[Tar-Elendil]

aye..i thoroughly enjoyed book of lost tales 1 and 2

[Garina]

I actually found the Sil a lot easier to read than the Lost Tales. I've only read book 2 but i just found the language easier to understand!

[markedel]

I could never get into BoLT myself. I'll have to try someday.

[Michael Martinez]

The Silmarillion is not a rewrite of The Book of Lost Tales. It is a wholly separate work, conceived of for a different purpose. Tolkien reused the themes and many characters from The Book of Lost Tales, but he set out to achieve something different with the Silmarillion mythology.

That mythology was abandoned in the mid-1930s, just as the BoLT mythology for England had been abandoned in the mid-1920s. Tolkien created a new mythology as he worked on The Lord of the Rings. The new mythology incorporated the older Silmarillion mythology as well as The Hobbit and much new material.

I think that the narrative style of what became The Silmarillion was determined by Tolkien's need to tell the full story of Middle-earth as quickly and authoritatively as possible. Its roots most likely lie in the composition of the appendices to The Lord of the Rings (although Tolkien actually returned to the Elder Days material a couple of years before he began working on the appendices).

[Sister Golden Hair]

Doesn't Tolien carry over some of the old mythology into the existing mythology? What I mean is: for instance in the Lays of Beleriand, he refers to Sauron as Thu. Also, part of the song of power between Finrod and Sauron was brought forth in the Silmarillion, but in the Lay of Leithian it is worded differently.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Doesn't Tolien carry over some of the old mythology into the existing mythology? What I mean is: for instance in the Lays of Beleriand, he refers to Sauron as Thu. Also, part of the song of power between Finrod and Sauron was brought forth in the Silmarillion, but in the Lay of Leithian it is worded differently.

Here is an analogy. Say you design a quilt, and in that quilt you include a picture of an armored knight on horseback facing a dragon. You get the quilt about 90 per cent done and then stop working on it.

Now you design a new quilt. In this new quilt, you include a picture of an armored knight standing beside his horse, and a dragon is swooping down on them. You get this quilt about 50 per cent done.

Now design a third quilt. In this quilt, an armored knight is riding out of his castle and far away a dragon sits upon a hill-top, looking at the knight. You get this quilty about 80 per cent done.

Finally, you just sit down and do a quilt from start to finish without really thinking about how it should appear in advance. What you end up with is a completely finished quilt which is adorned with knights and dragons and horses and castles.

So, do you have one quilt or four?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez


Here is an analogy. Say you design a quilt, and in that quilt you include a picture of an armored knight on horseback facing a dragon. You get the quilt about 90 per cent done and then stop working on it.

Now you design a new quilt. In this new quilt, you include a picture of an armored knight standing beside his horse, and a dragon is swooping down on them. You get this quilt about 50 per cent done.

Now design a third quilt. In this quilt, an armored knight is riding out of his castle and far away a dragon sits upon a hill-top, looking at the knight. You get this quilty about 80 per cent done.

Finally, you just sit down and do a quilt from start to finish without really thinking about how it should appear in advance. What you end up with is a completely finished quilt which is adorned with knights and dragons and horses and castles.

So, do you have one quilt or four?

You have three incomplete quilts and one complete quilt. All containing elements of the original idea.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You have three incomplete quilts and one complete quilt. All containing elements of the original idea.

Exactly.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez


Exactly.

Yes, I know that, but it does cause some confusion. I would say a literal creation is a bit more hard to differentiate in those aspects than a quilt or a puzzle that you can visually look at and see the differences. I just find it a bit confusing that certian names are carried over into the newer mythology and then changed in midstream. The first time I ever heard of Thu was from you at the "White Council". You did a quote to answer someones question. I was so confused, I hadn't the faintest idea of who Thu was. Even without the old Mythology, the names are overwhelming to remember and keep track of. Definately a lifetime endeavor.

[Michael Martinez]

I don't remember nearly as much of this stuff as people think I do. I often refer to the books before answering questions. And I certainly don't write all those essays off the top of my head!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez
I don't remember nearly as much of this stuff as people think I do. I often refer to the books before answering questions. And I certainly don't write all those essays off the top of my head!

Really? Ah, you've burst my bubble. j/k.

[Eldanuumea]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez
I don't remember nearly as much of this stuff as people think I do. I often refer to the books before answering questions. And I certainly don't write all those essays off the top of my head!

So there IS hope for us neophytes!
Michael, I love your quilt metaphor or analogy. A mental picture can be worth so much more than a thousand words.